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  • YodaMan3D
    0 posts

    @a0-massivepepis I will give you the same response we have heard since TD days. "It's the DZ! There are no rules, anything goes."

    Historically speaking, Ubi/Massive doesn't balance. They nerf, as in destroy and make completely useless. Now someday it may get balanced by the time they have completely given up on this game and stop doing updates. So yeah, when players come in and cry and whine about how something is broken or OP, just begging for a nerf.

    I question their narrative. Why do they wan this nerf? What was their strategy? What is their playstyle? Is it just because they got spanked and refuse to change their strategy or playstyle? Is this another SB Hater trying to eliminate all SBs from the game. In this thread alone we already have some honorable mentions for other builds and skills that some want nerfed? Why? Are they OP? Are they broken? Did someone get spanked and refuses to change their own style? Remember the DZ has No Rules. Everything goes,

    The evidence that "traps" was broken, was a player in the DZ standing and not moving. While another player runs up and checks their build out and then drop traps. If the person making the video considers it "good" PvP to just stand there, letting another player drop a "trap" on you, killing them. Hmmmmm? Someone may want to find a better Mentor to teach them about "good" PvP. I would also point out, one spokes person for destroying "traps", has stated he's used it to destroy others. When exactly did it become broken, what made it broken? Him spanking others none stop or him / his team getting spanked?

    TD series, when it comes to PvP in the DZ. Players are always going to use Guns, Gear, and Skills that allow them to get the quickest, easiest kills. So instead of crying or whining for everything else to get nerfed to oblivion. Why not just come out and state what your playstyle is and that you want it to be OP over everything else. That is the narrative this thread is pushing for, right?

    My concern comes to what about what is best for the game? It's players? What happens to "traps" after they have been nerfed. How does it affect those who have a 6 tier "trap" build that becomes useless in PvE, cause others couldn't or wouldn't change their strategy or playstyle? Some can say they want balance, but who truly plays this game looking for a mediocre build. No one. We farm for perfect builds. No one is playing to see themselves killed just as easy they can kill. We farm for builds that get us those sweet, quick and easy kills. Then many complain when we fall victim to those same guns, builds, or skills. Then they want the "all mighty" nerf from Massive. I would be willing to support players who request balancing, but many in this thread haven't asked for balance. They want builds or skills "nerfed".

    I suggest trying a better strategy. If one's best strategy is to run face 1st into a trap. How many times does it take to get one to reconsider that may not be the best plan. Remember the DZ has no rules.


  • Aced_100
    40 posts
    I suggest trying a better strategy. If one's best strategy is to run face 1st into a trap. How many times does it take to get one to reconsider that may not be the best plan. Remember the DZ has no rules.

    I agree entirely, all's fair in love and war, and the DZ is war.

  • YodaMan3D
    0 posts

    @aced_100 This is what has been said from day 1 in TD1 and it hasn't changed.

  • Sock_Monkey
    283 posts

    Yep. I know there are lots of calls for stuff like a PvE DZ, but I think they could do plenty of things to make the DZ less frustrating while still keeping the "anything goes" aspect.

    One thing I yearned for since the release of Div 1 was a "contaminated loot locker." This seems like such an obvious answer to so many issues I have no idea why it never occurred to them. Did something drop in the DZ that you really like, but at present there are rogues everywhere? What if the CP had a loot locker for contaminated gear where you can store stuff. You still cannot use it or equip it or mod it until it's extracted, but if you can make it back to the CP alive you can store it for extraction at a later time. This way you aren't "trapped" in the DZ, can travel back to HQ, or farm more gear, etc. Your contaminated loot is unusable, but safe.

    The current method where you are trapped until you extract, and any FT will destroy it, is just stupid and clearly designed to favor players that want to gang up on you to steal your stuff. I think this change alone would go a LONG way to reducing anger about the DZ and bring in more players.

    Another thing I support but goes into "slippery" territory would be a debuff of some kind for grouped players; the larger the group the more the de-buff. This would reduce the incentive to gang up 4v1 (both ways), though I recognize that non-grouped players that are cooperating would make this a tough one to implement. This would be less popular and definitely harder to do right, but I think it would be worth considering.

    Just thinking out loud. I know they'll never do it.


  • DutchLMB4ever
    132 posts

    @sock_monkey I like the locker idea. You should make a separate suggestion for it.

  • ModalThread611
    97 posts

    @yodaman3d Your simple logic would suggest an all yellow build should deal as much damage as an all red build, an all red build should have the same heals as an all yellow build last but not least an all blue build should deal as much skill damage as an all yellow build. This is what you are saying. You still will not answer that question I asked weeks ago. Because right now an all blue build with no skill tier can deal the same damage as an all yellow build. This has nothing to do with rules of the dz for which you don't pvp so what really would you understand about DZ etiquette or pvp in general. The issue as stated over and over. Is traps are broken and are dealing way too much damage in pvp. So tell me do you think the devs think an all blue build with traps zero skill tiers should be able to do the same damage as an all yellow build? Just answer that very simple question. None of this has to with strategy whatsoever. This is about a broken skill not working as it should. The entire point of yellows, blues and reds is so you have to invest into them to deal make skills, gun damage, heals, armor more powerful. If I did not have to invest into anything to deal big damage, have big heals and powerful trap we would all have builds exactly the same and that did everything in one build. This is what your logic is telling everyone.

  • Sock_Monkey
    283 posts

    @dutchlmb4ever Is there even a mechanism for making game change suggestions?

  • DutchLMB4ever
    132 posts

    @sock_monkey just make a thread in general discussion.
    With the title DZ suggestion or DZ locker suggestion.
    And explain what and how.

  • YodaMan3D
    0 posts

    @modalthread611 1st, I believe anything goes in the DZ. 2nd, I believe you and your team used a poor strategy and got spanked for it. 3rd, I believe that instead of accepting that, you want "traps" nerfed.

    So once this is nerfed and no one will use "traps" whether they are Tier 0 or Tier 6, then what. Massive has shown that don't balance well. They nerf to uselessness. That is your narrative is right. Nerf to oblivion. Then what happens when players get spanked in the DZ or in PvP? Will it always be nerf before players will change their strategies.

  • the_Kettle
    134 posts

    @ModalThread611 and @YodaMan3D, you're arguing at cross purposes here, and it's pretty obvious neither of you stand any chance of persuading the other without some major clarification:

    Yodaman very clearly does not care at all about PVP balance, and is only concerned that any changes may have a negative effect on PvE balance. Exactly which specific nerfs in the past have prompted this I don't know (Eagle Bearer maybe?), as on the whole it seems to me like PvE is pretty well-balanced at the moment (barring a very few OP items like Scorpio).

    If you really want to insist on convincing him to agree with you, therefore (why that's so important would be a whole other question), I suspect you'd have to persuade him that the Dev team are capable and willing of adjusting PvP balance without affecting PvE balance at all (which is certainly theoretically possible, as the stats show two different damage figures for PvE & PvP, as shown below, so adjusting one without changing the other shouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility). You could also try arguing that PvP balance is a reasonably important goal in the game, and that a healthier PvP setup would keep more players in the game, which would likely translate to more investment from Ubisoft, which would benefit the PvE players too.

    I believe you and your team used a poor strategy and got spanked for it. 3rd, I believe that instead of accepting that, you want "traps" nerfed.


    This argument is just bait though and seems more like an attempt at justifying the 'PvP balance doesn't matter' viewpoint than anything that holds up to analysis.




    EDIT: looking at the damage stats above (taken at tier 0 with no skill damage stats except Keeners Watch), this skill should certainly not be capable of 1-shotting players as claimed, so there must be some bug in the implementation of it.

  • ModalThread611
    97 posts

    @yodaman3d You can't even answer the question. You know deep down I am right. You have no answer and only non sense. You are here only because you want to be able to use broken gear. You know nothing of how pvp should be. As I said your logic is an all yellow build should deal the same damage as an all red build. Absolute comedy.

  • ModalThread611
    97 posts

    @the_kettle All blue with harde wired the damage is almost 500k per trap. When tossed I once blew up 6 at once and can easily wipe a team. There are videos of it in action. Traps are obviously not working as intended. It's the toss, take traps and put them on any build and toss them on a player and see what happens.

  • ModalThread611
    97 posts

    @the_kettle

    Watch that and tell me that is not broken. This goes against the entire point of having reds, blues or yellows. This yoda guy is doesn't pvp and is only concerned of nerfs not broken skills. This is about things that are clearly not working as they should.

  • the_Kettle
    134 posts

    @modalthread611 Did you even read my post at all? I wasn't arguing with your point, only observing why it wasn't getting through to YodaMan.

  • von-Ravensburg
    1 posts

    @adrian-11 I agree. As long as players can switch in and out of the rogue mode as if they were using a light switch playing in the DZ is a joke. I suggest changing the time span you have to stay in the rogue mode to at least 15 minutes. Then I can go hunting these guys down after they have shot me. Now they just switch into the normal mode and become immune again and laugh about me. If I had 15 minutes to chase them with my special rogue-killing build, the table would turn and playing in the DZ would become much more balanced and interesting, too. By the way - is turning rogue and shooting player in the back a skill ?

  • ModalThread611
    97 posts

    @von-ravensburg What? I have no words. This is too much.

  • Sock_Monkey
    283 posts

    @von-Ravensburg

    By the way - is turning rogue and shooting player in the back a skill ?


    Nope, just a cheesy/lazy/lame-o way to rack up kills and convince yourself you're "gud."

    I had one that kept one-shotting me with a pistol from 100 yards - perfect headshot every time - and kept saying "I guess I am just that much better than you."

    Of course when challenged with "turn off the aimbot and let's try again" he denied usage of such.

    Yeah, sure...

  • YodaMan3D
    0 posts

    @the_kettle

    On the contrary, I do care about PvP. I also care about other aspects of the game that will be affected by players who are salty about getting beat in the DZ.

    1st, the DZ has no rules. Everything goes. Which has given some the idea that they can do whatever they want. Cheat, use glitches, or just using Cheezy Attacks / Builds.

    2nd, I personally have played with some that become sore losers when they get killed in the DZ. Claiming others cheat, use glitches, or even use something cheezy. When their strategy is questioned, they get bent.

    3rd, I have doubts that anyone crying for "nerfs" actually want balance. If you read the whole thread, some want Red Builds nerfed. While others want nerf Yellow builds nerfed. Some want Blue builds nerfed. Then some want Skills nerfed. So which nerfs do you allow. For each of us, it depends on our preferences.

    4th, With the history Massive has when they have attempted "balance" TD or TD2. The TD DZ, with all build options. Only 3 builds are worth using. That's after they "balanced" everything and none of them are SBs. Once Massive has created balance what is worth using. Then how does that affect the rest of the game. How does nerfing guns, gear, skills affect PvE to. How does nerfing any of the above affect strategy. If there is nothing stopping you from running in and face tanking everything. Why do you need long range weapons?

    I understand the problem. Do any of you consider the issues created when you get your way? Do you consider how others or other parts of the game will be affected?

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