Locked The real reason most people who PVP hate skill builds.3 Likes/369 Replies/12235 ViewsYodaMan3D 0 posts
@modalthread611 What if you change your strategy? Oh my what would they do?
If we all cry nerf and there has been several suggestions for nerfs in this thread alone? Oh my what would they do?
PvE is one of the things I am concerned about. What happens when players claim everything is OP or broken or cheezy or cheating or glitched? To me you are hooked on one piece of Cheeze, when the whole game is built around players using Cheeze, especially the DZ.
Traps won't affect me. I have rarely used them, and I haven't seen them used that often in DZ. Ask yourself, how does nerfing them affect the game or others in the game. Cause I have had builds nerfed in the past cause other players hated them and begged for something nerfed. I would prefer that not be the direction everything happens in TD series. Yet many players would rather nerf other playstyles that they hate then to find a better strategy.
It's really too bad that Massive has a had a poor history of actually balancing in TD series. In TD, by the end of the game only 3 builds were worth using in PvP. None were SBs, because many hated on Skills in general. Massive has not always been able to perfect balancing in TD2.
@yodaman3d It is not a nerf if they are not working as they should. I have so many words to say and cannot here. You though are something special. Still have yet to answer based on your mindset. You have openly said without saying it an all yellow build should hit like an all red build, an all red build should have the heals of an all yellow build. Just sit back and read the things you say. They make zero sense. I have said over and over and it has failed to click. An all blue build should never have the damage of an all yellow skill build. This major point just eludes you. All you say is what will happen to pve. Nothing because the build is not used in pve. Pve would stay as it is and you would be ok. You only care about pve and you keep proving that by thinking it is ok to have super broken gear used in it so pve does not get nerfed.
YodaMan3D 0 posts
The rules of the DZ are simple. There aren't any. Yet you lost and now you want a skill nerfed. Yes, requesting it to be changed from it's current state to make it weaker. If I understand what you have typed, you want it made useless. That is a nerf. Seeing how Massive has a terrible time they try to "balance" anything it is a nerf. Yet you still haven't accepted the fact that if you tried some other tactic other then repeatedly running face 1st into the Trap over and over and over, you may have witnessed different results.
Now Metal_Greg has mentioned he has seen some OP Red Builds. If we start nerfing we might as well make all Red Builds useless. That is your way of thinking right? No need to change tactics, just ask for nerfs.
If we start down that road, we have nerf all Blue Builds and all Yellow Builds as well.
In the end all Builds need a chance at being viable, whether you accept losing to them or not. DZ can be a rough place.
@yodaman3d Just answer the question you are sacred to answer and just flat out won't. Since you are ok with an all blue build dealing the same skill damage as an all yellow build. So with your flawed logic it would make sense an all red build has the heals of an all yellow build and an all yellow build should deal the same damage as an all red build. That is every point you make. Every argument and statement leads to you saying those builds should work that way. You believe you should not have to invest into any yellows to deal the same skill damage as an all yellow build. Just let that sink in. I am pretty sure you cannot and are only concerned about nerfs and gear being broken and no concern for things working as they should.
@yodaman3d You don't pvp nor know much about it to know how the dz should or should not be. Let us say it together an all blue build deals same damage as an all yellow skill damage build and has zero cool downs, an all yellow build should deal the same damage as an all red build and last but not least an all red build should have the same heals as al all yellow build. This is your logic and how the game should work. No nerfs to pve just leave things broken and so you can be happy.
Sr_0v3rk1ll 94 posts
@metal_greg developers don't want you to play division games like a regular shooter game. I want to go dps in pve, because simply, I don't like skills or depending on abilities. But I can't help noticing that with my skill build, hana-u, wyvern wear and waveform with in-sync and force multiplier for drone and turret everything is so much easier its clear to me they want us to play the game like a division game.
@modalthread611 I did [ask for lower TTK]
I think you should die if you aren't paying attention and I catch you from behind. Then again, I also think headshots should be deadly. We're squishy human beings, not Master Chief.
But I know the PvP folks don't like that here, so I'm not expecting the devs to cater to folks like me [hell, most PvE players like the sponge too, which is why I ask for a lower TTK Hardcore Mode, instead of the "crash timer mode" we have now].
@latenitedelight Real-life combat is not "fun" (I speak from experience). This is a fact. So making a video game more like reality never translates to a game that's more fun. It translates to frustration and anxiety (for the players) and ensures you won't have many (if any) players to go up against before long. It's been a while, but I recall an experiment that someone did 20+ years ago and tried to make a 1st-person game more "realistic" in that one shot, anywhere, would severely gimp you, affect your reflexes and slow you way down. He did it mostly to prove a point, but no one liked playing it. No one.
Never confuse this issue. Division is a game, not reality. Concepts like "realistic," "more realistic," "coward," "brave," tough," etc. do not in any way apply or even have meaning when you're sitting in a chair behind a computer monitor.
Given that, it's the job of the developers to make the playstyle fun, not frustrating or aggravating. You may think that would be more fun, but I'd guarantee after the novelty wore off you'd be [censored] after being on the receiving end a number of times and would quit the game too.
Clearly this is not what any developer is going to aim for.
@sock_monkey You're talking to a person who grew up playing hundreds of hours of GoldenEye64 License to Kill [one shot mode], pistols only. And if you were correct, Ghost Recon & R6S wouldn't exist.
Some players get anxiety from a deadlier shooter, and some players like the sponge - but there is a reason why most shooters have a "Hardcore" mode that traditionally makes the game more deadly and removes handholding items like mini-maps. If there wasn't a market for it, BF & COD wouldn't have continued to include them with each release [not that I'm advocating playing many of their modern iterations].
Hence why I always ask for it to replace our moronic "Hardcore" mode, not the normal mode.
You're talking to a person who grew up playing hundreds of hours of GoldenEye64 License to Kill [one shot mode], pistols only. And if you were correct, Ghost Recon & R6S wouldn't exist.
And what are the sales number of those games (vs. TCTD)? There are only a few for a reason, and even those are only selectable modes.
@sock_monkey Siege has over 70 million registered users and has grossed over $1b during it's lifetime [it hit the $1b milestone in 2019].
Wildlands sold over 10 million copies, Breakpoint less, but that had more to do with the weird Destiny pivot they took that alienated their fans.
@latenitedelight This is not COD or Battlefield, you don't just insta respawn. If that was the case then why do we have a rogue system with a cool down for me to come back? Why should you be rewarded for being bad and having bad aim with a low TTK? What skill does it take in this type of pvp to wildy spray bullets and land half of them to kill me?
@latenitedelight If the TTK is that low and might get lower with the new gear stat increase than there should be no need to flag to go rogue and if you are a status player and toss status in a crowd you should go rogue. If you spam nades or have bad aim and hit a non rogue you should be punished and go rogue.
@modalthread611 Why should you be rewarded for being ignorant of your surroundings? When did we gain magical powers?
As I said, not asking them to muck up the precious spongeville - I'm asking for Hardcore mode to be deadlier, instead of a crash timer nanny mode [for people who can't hold themselves accountable to reset when they die, if that's how they wanted to play].
@latenitedelight LOL - the overabundance of aimbots allowing "insta-melt" kills already achieves what you want. Half the guys I encounter in the DZ rip through a shield and 1.5M armor in less than a second using ARs from 50-100 ft.
You want to add a "hard core" mode on top of that? Your agent would be dead on the ground before you even heard the gunshot. Sounds like a ton o' fun...not.
@sock_monkey that's not a game design problem, that's an anti-cheat problem
I want a real wild west
No flagging, but real consequences for going Rogue. As in 30 real world minutes regardless of what you do. And you lose your skills [lost ISAC] - but you get a tier 4 Jammer Pulse with a 30second cool down [like Hunter's]. Eventually you get one skill back [either ANNA "boot" timer or earning the status with X kills]. You also pulse yourself every time you fire [ISAC is scanning for signs of you]. In return, you get access to the Thieves Den for 24 hours [after getting ANNA].
I also think all skills should do to the same damage regardless of tier - what tiers give you are more [time/stingers/gas/traps/etc] and heartier protection. For instance, a tier 0 Jammer Pulse can only destroy a tier 0 skill - anything lower level just reduces the duration/strength. A tier 0 Striker Drone does the same damage as a Tier 6, but only lasts 30 seconds, can be taken down by minimal damage, has a smaller mag and takes longer to acquire targets- plus the cooldown is longer. I also think Shields need to take longer to deploy/stash and the Crusader should reduce stability and increase reload times.
To tie it back to the thread - a tier 0 trap would still kill any agent, but you only get three traps per toss with a long cool down. Tier 1 bumps that to 5/6 with a slightly shorter cooldown, etc. They also glow slightly at lower tiers, while higher tiers add minimal camo.
Oh, and LD, Intimidate & In-Sync need PvP modifiers like Unbreakable.