@txdieselkid It does vary vastly per platform. Xbox non stop skill's and status, PS not so much but yes and PC some also. Just xbox it's like a plauge.

@yodaman3d I always shoot first. use 3 armor kits and still die. Run hazard and still die not long after. Half my armor is gone on the explosion, jam them and oh wait my jammer was nerfed to almost being useless since it only lasts for 1 second or so and they already have their skills back and I have to wait 20 seconds. I have used 3 kits and have one left. Use my last one while they spam fire at me and finish with the sticky they have back. They deal way to much damage. They should not deal two types of damage. I do feel if you run hazard you should not do as much damage as a regular build. They are hard to farm for and deal very little damage, when a skill build can be farmed for in a couple of hours and a new player can hit the dz and start killing other players with ease. I see it all the time. All while I spent months perfecting my hazard build. Why is my hazard build weak and they can have all blues, unbreakable and be able to spam shrapnel traps on me and wipe my entire team. So back to hazard builds. I do less damage and now am facing a very tanky skill build and need more damage and cannot get close to them since all they have to do is spam traps on me and I am dead.

@sircowdog1 I agree and disagree, they are told about what is broken if the push it through and pay little attention. They know and knew. They just don't care. It could be so much better. If they actually cared enough to take the time to make it right and think about ok, if we buff skills over and over how will it affect pvp?

@sircowdog1 I agree and disagree, they are told about what is broken if the push it through and pay little attention. They know and knew. They just don't care. It could be so much better. If they actually cared enough to take the time to make it right and think about ok, if we buff skills over and over how will it affect pvp?

It's not that simple. If you buff a skill because it's under-performing in PVE...such as the flame turret...it's not just a question of "how will it effect PVP?". Do they nerf it again because PVP players died and think it's too strong? Where does that leave the PVE side of things?

People need to stop thinking in simple terms. It's NOT just a matter of buff or nerf. PVP uses an entirely different set of priorities and balance. It really is almost a completely different game, and it should NEVER be mixed, IMO.

@modalthread611 Odd as XB is the platform I'm on also.

@sircowdog1 I would say that there for sure needs to be a bigger divide in how things work in PvP vs PvE in this game, but I also understand the dev's side of wanting things to align as close as possible to not create confusion.

@modalthread611 for a game mode with “no rules” the build police have a lot of rules and love to tell people what they can and cannot use. The way I see it is use whatever you you need to use to survive. There are definitely changes I’d like to see made to some pieces but it is what it is.

@txdieselkid If the goal was to avoid confusion between PVP and PVE, then they should have made separate games with 100% focus on each type of gameplay. The divide should be BIGGER, not smaller!

@ModalThread611
You can't be serious? I can make an all blue armor core shrapnel trap build ZERO yellow cores, use hardwired and a bulwark and spam traps. This all blue armor shrapnel trap build can drop an entire team. That is the most broken thing in the game. That is the reason people hate skill builds. They deal way to much damage in pvp, they do 2 types of damage. Debuffs have no hard counter. Oxidizer is a debuff hazard and booster do nothing for it. Same as the dumb pestilence debuff, no amount of hazard will stop it nor will a booster. Why do skills need to do two types of damage in pvp? Fire sticky hazard you say, ok sure I have a 1.5 million armor 90% hazard and can take it to 100% with mods. This is supposed to be a hazard build with some weak damage. Incoming fire sticky just took half of my armor. So now I can die to the over powered bullets from a capacitor all from a little helpless skill build. Ok, now lets say I have no hazard and a fire chem and sticky are being used on me. I have a booster and a jammer. They can spam fire chem faster then I could ever jam. Not only that I have to get so close I for sure will get hit by both and die. Why, well my booster is gone since it only has 12 charges and my jammer is on a long cool down and I cannot pop an armor kit fast enough. I cannot ADS I am helpless to a supposed helpless skill build. really no one runs around with an all red build in pvp. We use anywhere from 1.1 to 1.5 for some damage and some armor. Yet still get wiped easily by these 2 damage dealing skill and status builds. Oh you say you need hazard and explosion resistance ok sure. So now I have both and deal zero damage to any build. I will do less gun damage then a yellow build with the capacitor. Yeah that makes sense. Talk about banging your head into a brick wall and making people understand the real reason we hate skill and status builds instead of making things up.

Here's three guns that can one-tap in the DZ: 1886, Nemesis, Regulus. If I were to use the same arguments you have above regarding reaction times, methods of mitigation, armour values etc then these three guns should also be nerfed, or if you wish skills to be removed completely then any one-tap capability should also be removed.

Then I could move on to a few other things that are OP when viewed from the other end of that gun and keep on going down that slippery slope of too much damage until we hit the bottom.

Bottom line is you don't like skills, because an argument of the form: "It's OP" is just going to have me laughing a lot. OP? So what, join the club.

@modalthread611 Even if an entire server switched to skill builds on you, they're not 'resorting' to anything. They're using the tools available to them to defeat the enemy: You. Because you, their enemy, are not in there to have a picnic are you: you're in there to kill them.

If a group of agents attempt to go rogue/manhunt and then control the server then they get what's coming to them. At that point they have usually captured high ground or an easily defensible spot giving them a clear advantage over gun based assaults. They aren't moving from there but continue to harass the server thereby forcing the situation. So they get blown the $!^& off the map and good riddance.

If you can't hold the ground why are you complaining about it afterwards.

@metal_greg gotta admit i didnt think skill builds took alot of skill to begin with but the more ive been using one the more i realise it does take a certain style of play. I can adapt my play and builds to different scenarios so im not that fussy when it comes to fights, just put on the counter.

Every build should have a weakness, pre gear 2.0 the lmg build i made had something like 550k armour, 100% hazard, an i was hitting i think 33k, which were all decent at the time, the m60 rof was better then so it wasnt as hard to use so quick takedowns were easier. I miss 100% hazard as yeah the status effects are annoying but there are builds that work around it.

Personally i think they need to balance the game a bit more than it currently is but ultimately the pvp is so dead and basic that anyone dropping in as a new player just hits the yt metas ratger than being able to run something that suits them or what they want to run. Now if you drop to level 30 pvp, it's much more entertaining but theres obviously not alot of players about so battles are few and far between.

The moment we go into PVP/DZ discussions, it feels that we are just wasting our time... IMO, there are two fundamental issues, and they have nothing to do with the builds, skill-based or otherwise.

1. Cheating - I got shot through the cover so many times, while it seems I do 0 damage on players with full red builds
2. Switching to rogue/SHD every 2 minutes - I met players that stay SHD, just to get rogue and shoot in the back the moment you engage a landmark; I hate these guys more than the cheaters

So, each time I see these things happen, I'm out of DZ. Sometimes I get to be in DZ for hours, but most times I'm gone in 10 min due to these reasons.
I understand cheating is hard to control (should try to though). But at the minimum there should be a longer time threshold for your rogue or SHD status, 30 min or until you are down.

Until then, it feels this discussion is moot. Btw, I have never run into someone in DZ sporting a skill-based build.

@modalthread611
1st, you shoot 1st and still die? In my experience, a well built Gun Build takes out a SB quicker then the SB can spawn their skills.
2nd, "they" are using spam fire, use stickies, and use spam traps? Curious on what SB is able to use 3 Skills, when everyone else is using only 2. They have to go to the menu to switch skills and that takes time. A well built Gun Build doesn't need to much time.
3rd, why do you need to get close? Distance is your friend, a SB is limited by range. Keep your distance and kill them with patience.
4th, lastly how many is they? Cause once again, if you are facing a well organized team and you are running Solo. You aren't meant to win.
5th, now pending on who you are and if you are lucky when it comes to RNG. Some players came farm just about any build within hours.

@txdieselkid

Sounds like a team up is needed. Get some mentoring in, earn some good karma.

@sircowdog1 Since div 1 they have said we will keep the 2 separate. They continue to mix the two poorly. Not any of our fault they don't live up to what they promise to do. Keep them strong in pve fine, not OP as they are in pvp.

@yodaman3d This is bad man. It sounds to me like you don't pvp very much at all, or you think you but really don't. You take care.

@richardoshea If you did pvp you would understand what I am saying. You wipe them once or twice and they have no idea what to do. They tried the guns and failed so they resort to what they know is way over powered and what will give them the best chance to end the other side.

@txdieselkid I stepped foot in the Dz at launch and ever since WONY and some before skill's have become OP now all of them are. I cannot get into a pvp engagement there is always some type of OP damage skill or status.