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  • Csodaszarvas_G
    Original poster 337 posts

    Hi everyone!
    So, this is the new forum...

    I would like to start a conversation and offer some ideas about Valkyrie for her potential TG. I know that her rework is not the most urgent one, especially since we didn't even get Raider's, Orochi's and Shinobi's changes, but she could use some changes as it is a slower process (compared to better heroes in the game) to defeat enemies with her and it feels like it takes more effort as well (I'm talking from experience).
    She has a really robust and quite complete move-set, which is fantastic, the only thing she needs is a bit more synergy between her moves, better flow (mix-up potential), stamina management and some minor buffs, these ideas contain every single one of those. She is my 3rd favorite hero, so obviously I would like to see her improved.

    So, here are my suggestions:
    NOTE: Valkyrie's current stats are pulled from the For Honor Information Hub (link at the end of the post).

    Light Attacks:
    - Damage overhaul --> chain starters 12 DMG, chain lights 10 DMG, light finisher DMG shouldn't be changed
    - Side chain lights should be faster at 400ms (from 500), just like how her top chain lights and top light finishers are
    - Chain starter lights should be enhanced (less risk to initiate chains, better offense)

    Heavy Attacks:
    - Chain starter heavies and chain heavies (not finishers) should be faster by 100ms (700ms for both chain starters and chain attacks from 800)
    - All heavy attacks should have a bit better tracking
    - All side heavy attacks should have a wider hit-box (better in team fights and for minion clearing)
    -Top heavy finisher should be unblockable (no DMG changes, not really sure that it is necessary, but I would definitely welcome it)

    Stamina:
    - +10 Stamina (this isn't a must)
    - Reduced stamina cost on Shield Tackle (the full-block bash), entering into full-block, exiting from full-block via either a feint or a Shield Tackle (25stm from 35, 20 for feinting it from 30), also on Spear Sweep (6stm from 12)

    Superior Block dodge options:
    - Add either 5 extra bleed or direct DMG to Shoulder Pin
    - Light dodge attacks after a Superior Block dodge should be guaranteed as well, with 5 extra bleed DMG (only after Superior Block dodge)
    - Guaranteed GB is fine, it shouldn't be changed.

    Zone Attack:
    - The first hit counts as a chain starter heavy, so the second part of her zone can be feinted like now, but it has new soft-feint options after the first strike:
    1. Shield Crush (already in the game)
    2. Chain light
    3. Chain heavy
    4. Dodge (potential cancel into Superior Block dodge, full-block or dodge attack)
    - The first and second hits consume stamina separately (30-30 or 20-20 or maybe even lower because of the OS removal)

    Sprint Attack:
    - It should function as a heavy chain starter, therefore it could be chained into:
    1. Chain light
    2. Chain heavy
    - It should have more forward momentum to chase down fleeing opponents

    Side and Forward Dodge Attack:
    - It should be Enhanced (and side dodge attacks could use a bit of a speed increase as well, 500ms from 533)

    Full-block:
    - Valkyrie should be able to cancel out from it with a forward or side dodge (potential cancel into Superior Block dodge or dodge attack). Not with backwards dodge because entering full-block from full-block makes no sense.

    New option (not really that new):
    - She should have her old headbutt back (it was named Ram's headbutt if I remember it right) but in a different role --> guaranteed parry punish:
    1. GB input immediately after a parry
    2. Causes 10 or 15 stamina damage
    3. Pushes back and stuns the opponent
    4. Can wallsplat and ledge
    5. Only causes stamina pause after a wallsplat (1 second)
    6. Chains into chain lights or heavies, furthermore into dodge
    7. Because of the push-back it normally guarantees a dodge forward light, if it wallspalts the punish is a chain heavy

    She also should have some kind of a undodgeable attack, maybe make her side light finishers or forward dodge light undodgeable.

    She should be able to dodge recovery cancel her finisher recoveries, including the stab after Spear Sweep but not the recovery of Spear Sweep itself.

    Opinions?

    Information Hub link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GrDRm_2w-2bjt9vw0Jowd2xNzOJDDBH_MAXWbStzA_w/edit#gid=9059899: (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GrDRm_2w-2bjt9vw0Jowd2xNzOJDDBH_MAXWbStzA_w/edit#gid=9059899)

    Thanks for reading, have a nice day! ☺

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  • deathtocakl
    1489 posts

    From my personal experience, I think for the most part she just needs to do more damage. Most of her attacks are all pretty weak and I feel like because of that, it just takes years to get a kill. I think it would also be cool to see her finisher side heavies either get unblockable, or undodgeble effect.

    I think if they made her soft feints just a tiny bit less reactable by possibility speeding them up by 100 or 200 ms, she would suddenly feel a lot better. She has no problems as far as feats go.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    Original poster 337 posts

    You might be right, she might only need better DMG output. However, I saw/heard a lot of people in the community calling Valkyrie the "Queen of mix-ups" and that's why I included new soft-feint options and chain options into my suggestions. Since she has no significant weakness, why not just improve upon the thing she does best... mix-ups.

    And you're right about making her soft-feint bash faster, it certainly won't hurt her. I didn't mentioned it because according to my experience I land 40-50% of those bashes. Of course, I don't play against the best people, my highest result in ranked was platinum IV.

  • deathtocakl
    1489 posts
    From my personal experience, I think for the most part she just needs to do more damage. Most of her attacks are all pretty weak and I feel like because of that, it just takes years to get a kill. I think it would also be cool to see her finisher side heavies either get unblockable, or undodgeble effect.

    I think if they made her soft feints just a tiny bit less reactable by possibility speeding them up by 100 or 200 ms, she would suddenly feel a lot better. She has no problems as far as feats go.


    Due to weird restrictions on the new fourms I cannot edit this easily. I meant to say undodgeble or uninterruptable.

  • Knight_Raime
    545 posts

    Valk is not really a hero i'm well versed in so I don't feel like I can offer much in terms of suggestions. I will say from your own suggestions though that I disagree about making her opener heavies 700ms. 700ms opener heavies have largely been phased out because of how unhealthy they can be. In short the problem is that at 700ms you can attempt to parry on light parry timing and then feint if it wasn't a light and you'd be safe to block or even punish the attack in some cases. 700ms chain heavies and finishers are fine though.

    The other thing is your buff to making her dodge attacks faster. Originally when we were testing the core combat update all dodge attacks were "faster." But it along side light spam was a large enough complaint when the devs looked at feedback so they made all dodge attacks have an extra frame (the 33ms,) to make them be just as reactable as they were pre CCU. So I don't see that buff happening. Personally my issue with her dodge attacks is the minimum delay timing. Her, Nuxia, and PK were all heros that have to wait 300ms into their dodge before the dodge attack starts. I hate how it feels and her dodge attack was only made this way after her initial rework. Considering the devs are adding fixed timings to dodge attacks these days I don't think this problem will ever be addressed either.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    Original poster 337 posts

    Knight_Raime

    I didn't take the problem you mentioned with 700ms heavy chain starters into consideration. You're right they can be really safe.

    In this case I change my original ideas about heavy attack speeds:

    • Heavy chain starters are not changed (24 DMG, 800ms)
    • Chain heavies are 700ms from 800 (25 DMG from 27 because they are faster)
    • Side heavy finishers are 700ms from 800 (DMG is the same)
    • Top heavy finisher is 800ms like now, but unblockable (32 DMG from 30 to give her a bit more damage output)
    • Of course my suggestions about tracking and hit-boxes still applies


    About her side dodge attacks. Yeah, they indeed a bit clunky but as long as the devs make them enhanced I will be able to tolerate that restricted input window. Or, since her dodge attack doesn't have any special properties, another possibility could be that the devs turn them into heavy side dodge attacks (the forward dash attack remains a light attack) and increase the damage to 16 from 15. The input window unfortunately remains as restrictive as before but in this case there is no need to change it nor the speed of the attack itself and it automatically becomes enhanced. But as compensation for the clunky timing it will only give a heavy parry.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    Original poster 337 posts
    Or, since her dodge attack doesn't have any special properties, another possibility could be that the devs turn them into heavy side dodge attacks (the forward dash attack remains a light attack) and increase the damage to 16 from 15. The input window unfortunately remains as restrictive as before but in this case there is no need to change it nor the speed of the attack itself and it automatically becomes enhanced. But as compensation for the clunky timing it will only give a heavy parry.


    I take this back. On a second thought, this would mess up her Superior Block dodge options.

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