@sock_monkey I only use SMGs, on an all red build, for npcs or players that have accidentally gotten real close, so burst damage is the top priority. All 3 are pretty interchangeable for me.

The Apartment
MP7 w/ Optimist
MPX w/ Optimist

I'm a bit at loss re. people prefer The Apartment...
There isn't a significant difference in DPS between the two halves of the magazine, if anything the 1st half is worse.
Not sure I understand the value or utility of "Measured" talent.

Curious that the Aug A3P never came up in anybody's list.

One dropped for me that was god rolled, and I just re-rolled the talent to Sadist and plugged it in place of my MP5, and the damage is incredible.

Yeah, RPM is a little lower. And the clip a little smaller. But plugged into my HF/Ridgeway/Wicked build I can kill two Elites (on a Heroic landmark) within the same clip, with bullets left over.

Am I missing something? A downside I am not aware of? Reload time is same as MPx, and accuracy and stability are actually a bit better - though by a minuscule increment.

@sock_monkey

Because the best AUG is called "Invisible Hand" and it's an AR.

@adrian-11 LOL. Well, with the stacks from Sadist on this build I am hesitant to change to a named SMG (can't re-roll the talent), but I can definitely keep it in mind for another build.

@sock_monkey

Try The Grudge (bleed is a status effect, right?)
18%CHD + 18%CHC for 20 seconds on killing an NPC with a status effect. The buff applies to all NPCs, not just the ones under status effect.
I find it more effective and powerful than Sadist.

@adrian-11 Is The Grudge an SMG?

I am not sure I've had it, but the name sounds familiar so I may have, but just deconstructed it.

@adrian-11 Is The Grudge an SMG?

I am not sure I've had it, but the name sounds familiar so I may have, but just deconstructed it.

Yes, named Banshee [highest sDPS SMG] - I got my first from Keener [does everyone?]

@adrian-11 Perfect Measured gets me over 7.2mm bDPS at the range. Regular Measured is def not as good though.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Dark Winter Vector 45. Perfect killer gets you 50% crit damage. It's my absolute favorite non exotic SMG in the game for PVE. For PVP the Apartment is my go-to non exotic SMG.

It is lucky SMGs in general come with high Critical Hit Chance like around 20% attribute. As long as you're near 60% total CHC then 3x accuracy weapon mods really do bring the bullet spread tighter closer towards AR level.

So if I may modify the OP somewhat to read "What do you think is the best non-exotic, non-named SMG in the game?" would anyone have a different answer?

I only ask because named SMGs (obviously) can't roll the talent, and for now I am hooked on Sadist + Ridgeway combo.

@sock_monkey

Well, if you exclude those and look at the base SMGs, you have a few options:

1. MPX
2. Vector
3. CMMG
4. P90

But it's quite subjective, depends on playstyle and what you put on them as mods and talents.

BTW, I still don't get what's the deal with The Apartment. Higher initial DPS? Yeah, that would make a marginal diff in PVP. Other than that...

@adrian-11 Yeah, I played with The Apartment a bit and am inclined to agree. The high RPM right off the bat is nice, but after it hits the lower half of the clip and slows down...meh.

It's actually great if you're taking out a bunch of low-armor enemies. You can reload often and always stay in the top half of the clip.

As soon a named Elite comes out and you have to unload on them...I'm not so sure.

@sock_monkey I do not agree with that. With Hunter's fury, The apartment is insane. Go to 1min in the video and you will see that I take down the boss with the default 30 bullet magazine (I have replaced the large magazine to + 20% reload speed) it works much better for me

@badkarmacreepin Have you tried The apartment with standard 30 magazine and + 20% reload speed ?

@sock_monkey

Well, if you exclude those and look at the base SMGs, you have a few options:

1. MPX
2. Vector
3. CMMG
4. P90

But it's quite subjective, depends on playstyle and what you put on them as mods and talents.

BTW, I still don't get what's the deal with The Apartment. Higher initial DPS? Yeah, that would make a marginal diff in PVP. Other than that...

The Banshee is still the strongest sDPS SMG. Tac Vector [followed by .45 Vector] is the highest bDpS.

@latenitedelight

The Banshee is still the strongest sDPS SMG. Tac Vector [followed by .45 Vector] is the highest bDpS

What are you using the "s" and "b" prefix to stand for?

@imagine_brata I may need to do that. I've toyed around with the +10 CHD mag, but not the reload speed, as I'm usually trying to drop players not npcs. But that never occurred to me.

@sock_monkey sDPS = sustained damage per second (fire, reload, fire, reload, etc.); bDPS = burst damage per second (highest amount of damage without reloading).