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  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    Do you think it's viable to build a Sniper/SMG build that keeps things as real/red as possible?

    I got the Mantis SRS rifle recently, which looks cool and has an interesting buff to enemies not targeting you. I guess it's intended to be used with the holographic decoy skill. I tried that briefly, but the decoy didn't last very long to make it all that viable for anything other than the first few opening shots. So I'm thinking switching to an SMG and striker drone when enemies start to close in. I also have a ton of good Hunter's Fury gear from the season rewards that might make for an interesting SMG build.

    Would a Hunter's Fury set, with my Glass Cannon chest and the Coyote mask, along with the decoy skill, a striker drone, the Mantis, and a good SMG be an effective combo?

    I'm afraid that at closer ranges where the Hunter's Fury is effective I would be cut to pieces.

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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • Oatiecrumble
    219 posts

    Snipers in this game for open world is fine but for anything else they can be a burden, pure Sniper is nice when having Mantis/Headhunter/Decoy but overall very dependent, also depends on solo or group.

    I don't recommend HF with a sniper build.

    Look here and decide on what you think will synergize well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTJEX5DerCvOj3a_m36TRy1gPBAUvrduOIdmXI9j1Y0MpQk1wIXaZ9KOcPa7HzXzp_N5qGmjDj6yEfL/pubhtml

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @oatiecrumble

    Yeah I think sniping has limited use, even in open world… especially solo.

    Is an all-red Glass Cannon SMG build possible? I have doubts about that as well.

  • the_Kettle
    92 posts

    Have to disagree with some of the posters in this thread about the usefulness of snipers - I play sniper more than anything else, in open world and in missions, solo and grouped, and it works just fine even with all directives on (I don't generally lag behind on kills or damage in group missions, unless everyone else is full DPS and mow everything down before I can aim...) With a high-end build with Mantis and headhunter as the key elements, your decoy gets reset every time you get a headshot kill so it doesn't matter that it doesn't last very long, you can just keep throwing them out. I do usually run an AR as a secondary for situations where I need to put out some consistent damage and don't have any suitable enemies to build headhunter stacks from (eg to get the helmet off a heavy) or for the occasional rusher when I can't seem to line up a headshot fast enough.

    Needless to say, you DO need consistently good aim, or you'll end up doing little to no damage. It's very much an all-or-nothing playstyle, and if I'm having an 'off day' I'll just switch to an AR or skill build instead. It's also worth noting that enemies generally make easier targets solo than when grouped - they tend to move a lot more erratically when being shot by others, when it's just you they don't appreciate the danger until its too late, and are much more likely to stand still or run in nice straight lines for you 🙂

    I do agree that HF/sniper is not a particularly useful combo though, you're essentially picking two conflicting playstyles and will only ever get the use of half your gear - pretty much the opposite of synergy.

  • LateNiteDelight
    188 posts

    @the_kettle Sniping is fun when you're clicking!

    While I wouldn't normally go HF for sniping, if you continue with only Hard/Challenging it might work. The key will be getting HS up enough to one shot Reds and Purples. Then use the HF SMG for when you get overwhelmed or in a set that isn't sniper friendly.

    Headhunter with an M870 backup is more fun though 👩‍🎤

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    Ok, thanks guys for renewing my interest… What’s a good set of gear for sniper with an SMG secondary when enemies get too close? I guess any red build with good headshot buffs? (My old rifle build might be perfect).

  • LateNiteDelight
    188 posts

    Plenty of ways to go about it - likely depends what you have - but yeah, basically just load up on headshot. Your Sacrifice [pGlass Cannon] will work. I've noticed you say you have a Gift [pVigilance]?

    My preferred sniper build is: Punch Drunk [named D&H Mask with 20%, multiplicative, HS damage], (2) Airaldi [MMR+HS], Providence [HS], W&H [5%WD], then Brand Kneepads [for my secondary].

    Headhunter is a fun Chest Talent if you can string shots together - plus you can get away with making the build a hybrid in that case. I prefer an AR secondary thanks to it's DtH, which helps plug the MMR weakness against Chunga & Dogs - but any thing can be a good secondary to the sniper if you play to it's strengths.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @latenitedelight

    I tried out a sniper/SMG build and I like it! Sharpshooter specialization with the Mantis and Dark Winter (secondary). My old Rifle build gear with perfect glass cannon and perfect vigilance and Coyote mask. I swapped out all gear mods for headshot damage. Then a few other pieces of red CHC/CHD gear. It’s hardly optimized yet but it works well already.

    If I get a crit, I can one-shot an elite. One body shot takes out a red. The SMG just melts.

    I took a Level 3 control point and I don’t think I took a round to my armor and was popping guys left and right. Then at the end, two rogue agents showed up… one took a few rounds from Mantis, the other met his fate at the hands of dark night.

    Aim is critical as you guys said. If you start missing it gets frustrating fast. But is you’re nailing shots, it’s very satisfying.

    The drone helps a lot. And with civies helping take a CP they open up a lot of opportunity if you hang back. I have my doubts about doing indoor missions, but the Vector seems perfectly capable.

  • LateNiteDelight
    188 posts

    @virtual-chris I've run through Grand Washington Heroic with an M700. Any level is doable with a sniper if you are halfway decent at headshots - I've also run stretches of the Summit with a Sniper build [even Legendary].

    Getting me tempted to do some personal challenges with my Sniper build and my Pistol build, but my gaming time is low during the summer and what time I have has been spent trying to max out Div1 and messing about in Generation Zero after trying a handful of other backlog games.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @latenitedelight

    I notice that if I take a second to line up a shot, that can be devastating or fatal. It seems when you’re aiming you’re more vulnerable than when you’re shooting or maybe that’s just my perception. Quick scoping works well though.

    Im still trying to get the hang of the decoy. Once I threw it out, and the bad guys shot at it, until I poked my head back up to take a shot, then they redirected fire at me instead of the decoy. Maybe it’s me, or it doesn’t work all that well? Any advice on using the decoy?

  • the_Kettle
    92 posts
    Im still trying to get the hang of the decoy. Once I threw it out, and the bad guys shot at it, until I poked my head back up to take a shot, then they redirected fire at me instead of the decoy. Maybe it’s me, or it doesn’t work all that well? Any advice on using the decoy?


    Try throwing it out at the beginning of every engagement before any enemies see you - you lose that nice easy shot against a completely unaware enemy, but you should find they target the decoy much more consistently. Keep an eye on the decoy timer too and make sure to replace it as soon as it goes down.
    Enemies you've already killed that get resurrected by a medic are more likely to target you instead of the decoy (who can blame them), but there's not much you can do about that other than killing the medics before they get the chance to revive anyone.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @the_kettle

    Thanks. I wonder if a turret might be a better skill. But I’ll give the decoy more time before I give up on it. I also have the drone which is excellent at drawing fire.

  • N3mB0t
    203 posts

    when i saw this thread title imediately came to head a shotgun with ranger , or a sniper rifle with close and personal , just because they sound as useful as a sniper /SMG build.😁

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @n3mb0t LOL… but seriously, if you’re using a rifle or marksman rifle at range, you will need a secondary that’s good at CQB… right?

    I’ve been using a shotgun for that until now.

    I thought.. why not try an SMG? That’s what they are really designed for… Personal defence weapon (PDW). With a glass cannon build heavy on CHC/CHD and headshot damage, it seems any weapon can be effective. 🙂

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    I swapped out my “Sacrifice” chest with perfect glass cannon for “Chainkiller” with perfect headhunter and that with the Mantis is deadly.

    I’m now able to take more damage, which is not good for me (I want that realistic level of intensity) but I will try it for awhile. I just hope I don’t develop any bad habits.

    One struggle I have is with the Dark Winter as my secondary… It works great on Hard difficulty, but on Challenging, even red enemies start to take a full mag to down. That bothers me. But it shouldn’t be that bad. Is the recoil just so erratic that it’s missing a lot? What mods are best? I think I’m using an extended mag, and 3 attachments that improve accuracy (as it already has like +18 CHC).

    Lastly, I’m about ready to give up on the decoy. The time it lasts is just too short to be very useful. I deploy it, get a shot off, then the other enemies scramble for cover, and by the time one of them pops up, the decoy has timed out. The drone is a far better at drawing agro than that stupid decoy device. Convince me I’m wrong to want to leave that out, even though it seems ideal to pair it with the Mantis. 😛

  • RichardOshea
    167 posts

    @the_kettle I agree. I solo quite a few sections of the Legendary maps using a mantis build and it gets me further than many other builds that just can't cope solo. I also use it in PvP where it is also quite handy. I'm not the best sniper in the game though (which upsets me because I'm an excellent sniper in real life) so it's not a play style I use regularly. I'd get better if I played it more I guess but there's so many things to play with I never get round to improving that aspect of my game.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @richardoshea

    Maybe you guys all know this, but one trick I’ve discovered for getting reliable head shots without exposing myself trying to line them up, is while in cover, use the circular reticule you see in 3rd person view to line up the target as best as possible (while in cover) then quick scope to take the shot which will pop you out of cover briefly with your magnified scope view exactly where you want it. It’s a total cheat method, since real world precision shooting works nothing like that, but in this game, you need to take advantage of every cheese method you can get 😉

  • LateNiteDelight
    188 posts

    Do you have Technician unlocked yet? Or a Memento backpack?

    When using Headhunter, I find I don't need as much damage, so I'd try to get a +skill or two in there if going with Mantis. Could also consider an Empress piece if you don't have the above. I also make sure to drop the decoy behind cover so the base is protected [ideally up, on a container or balcony if possible]

    I actually have a full Skill Headhunter build using White Death that I used for Legendary Summit - just need to be better about Red -> target, Red -> target.

  • Kanaima
    10 posts

    @virtual-chris I've tried a few ways to make SMGs work as an MMR main, but since sniping (at least with a bolt action) in heroic/legendary is so dependent on Headhunter to work well, the results are always going to be fairly lackluster.

    That said, if you're dead set on using one, I'd strongly recommend Unwavering.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 314 posts

    @latenitedelight

    I have access to Technician and a Momento but I’m not sure that’s the solution. I can look at adding a skill tier some other way.

    Is there anything I can do to make the Dark Winter more effective? It’s maxed out CHC and 120 CHD with 3 mods for accuracy. Not sure what else I can do to make that hit a bit harder.

    Also, one other question… against Chungas, I’ve always found targeting their backpack, or the belt feed temporarily stops them and then targeting their lightly armoured butt, or crotch will put an end to them quickly with full auto weapons. The sniper doesn’t seem to do anything… it’s almost completely ineffective for several rounds against Chungas… what am I likely doing wrong?

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