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  • xcel30
    Original poster 640 posts

    Okay this is going to be a long one, i should also mention that this is hoping devs actually listen to feedback and take their time reading this, because i fear that no other loudout changes my happen in the future purely how elite skins works so i think they might actually never happen again because devs wont want to change who has what guns just because of cosmedics, in case they do read the feedback i should mention, this is about improving characters performance DESPITE their gadgets, either because i don't believe that their gadgets should be changed (thermite is a good example) or characters whoose despite the performance of their gadget they suffer inherent bad loudouts (castle, warden and nokk as good examples), that the buffs needed to their gadgets to compensate the bad loudouts would need to be astronomically high and obviously impossible (again no warden)

    Capitão & Gridlock:
    Switch the SAWs around, Big magazines are better for 3 armors that can hold corners for longer and keep pressure even through soft walls seems like could make gridlock really good at holding a point while capitao who is 3 speed could benefit more from the smaller magazine and faster reload while keeping on the move but still being different enough from the the FAL

    Castle & Jager:
    Jager gets the UMP-45 and goes back to being 3 speed, Castle gets the 416-C without the latest nerf. Since castle is meant to be architect to control rotations and line of fire a bit more by using the secondary shotgun to create rotation holes, this would also allow him to take advantage of the superior range adn firepower of the 416-C by creating longer sightlines when remodelling the sites.
    Jager is already a troublesome operator for the devs and slapping his gun away but giving him back his 3 speed status with a worse gun will force people to be good at gunfights with him instead of relying on just a good gun.

    An alternative for just Castle is for him to get Commando 9 the same as Mozzie, not removing it from anyone, just adding to castle instead in the place of the UMP-45, Castle needs a more love in terms of firepower since both his guns are considered bottom of the barrel and his utility is not great enough to compensate. In case they decide to just solo buff Castle they can ignore the comments regarding Jager

    Thermite & Zofia:
    Thermite gets the LMG-E, Zofia gets the M1014. A weird trend i see is that all hard breachers have primary shotgun that is just... useless for them, this is just a weird thought but i think that giving thermite an LMG and with his current loudout having smoke granades at the moment i'm writing this, i think could work for him better to support plants.
    Could be considered a small nerf to Zofia but that would change it much but honestly this is the most experimental random one that i thought out of all of them

    Nokk:
    MP7 to replace the FMG-9, Supernova to replace the SIXSD or even possibly the FO-12. Since i doubt devs will actuall follow through with their word of buffing Nokk at any point might as well keep my suggestions alive, i should keep mention that other many people suggest that she should get an AR instead, varying from C8 down to R4-C and M4. Keeping the focus on her being an agressive close range attacker. The shotguns are pretty obvious, the Supernova is the best supressed shotgun in terms of having success at being a shotgun in this game which is a miracle and the FO-12 is an alternative if the devs plan to keep the semi auto idea for ambushes they want with Nokk because it's an very agressive gun that matches her well (SIXSD is the worst gun in the game)

    Warden & Jackal:
    Jackal gives his ITA12S to Warden instead of the P-10C, Warden also replaces his MPX with the FMG9. Quite simple this one Jackal is too versatile on top of being a great fragger with "annoying" gadget, this should limit his utility a bit while on the other hand this increases the utility of warden to being more versatile with a secondary shotgun and a better primary.

    Ace:
    Commando 552 or many others possiblities varying from decent middle of the road in performance (F90, FAL, AK-74) to others more recently nerfed (C7E, M762) to even knowingly bad ones such as MK17. But since we are seeing many more mixed loudouts with attackers having SMGs it's possible to follow that procedure and give him one instead such as Commando-9,C-1 or any other that the devs think could fit with his playstyle

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  • Karakzorn
    45 posts

    @xcel30 the devs are currently buisy finalising drone after death and reworking some operators, reworking weapons so drastically might sound good, but would greatly shake the playerbase. lots of people will be unhappy with jaeger losing his famous rifle. if jaeger remains powerful, the devs can always remove the 10s recharge time on his gadget, or simply remove 1 of of his 3 ADS deployments.

  • xcel30
    Original poster 640 posts

    @karakzorn What does drone after death has to do with anything here? This is about how tieing weapons too much to characters is binding balancing in bad ways that force them to nerf or buff unecessary operators that get caught in the crossfire (they can't buff warden MPX because they don't want to buff Valk, they say they don't want to buff mira but buffed the vector because they wanted to improve goyo the very next patch), and the recent Ace and Fuze debacle compared to the very successful Oryx and Melusi exchanged PROVED that is a reliabe way to distribute power and untie some of the issues they have, such as Castle and Pulse sharing the UMP-45, making it impossible to buff castle primary weapons.

    Devs said that they consider gadgets the main reason people should pick operators, they can't and wont nerf jager gadget anymore since the game depends too much on him, and in case they haven't noticed they clearly don't care about shaking the playerbase in the wrong way with weapons

  • RamboBambiBambo
    150 posts

    @xcel30

    I can see your opinion on CAPITAO and GRIDLOCK being valid.

    CASTLE has an extendable barrel for the UMP and less recoil overall when compared to the 416-C Carbine. It is easy to create long sightlines with the UMP and Super-Shorty.
    The best way to nerf JAGER would be to allow DOKKAEBI to hack his ADSs when she hacks the Defender CCTV, turning the lights from Blue to Yellow. Same goes with WAMAI's Mag-NETs and the Proximity Alarms. Make them switch teams if DOKKAEBI is able to get to a Defender Phone and hack it. This would require the Defenders to either destroy the device, or have the one who planted said devices retrieve them and re-set them in order to restore their alignment from Attacker to Defender, returning the lights to blue. That action would take time and give Attackers some breathing room to worry about less guns pointing at them for a few moments.

    THERMITE's shotgun isn't useless. I prefer using it as I can use smokes to conceal my insertion into the structure while prone since EVERYONE aims head height and doesn't expect a snaking guy with a shotgun to be creeping up to the adjacent cover to slip by and blast you from the side.

    NOKK's kit is amazing. And I don't understand why people say the Six12 and Six12 SD are bad shotguns, because all shotguns in Siege are strange as they do not yet have a preset pattern to their pellet spread. Once they DO have this pre-set pattern (since pro league controls some updates and has demanded other games do the same), all shotguns will be consistent. But the Six 12 is a well rounded gun, 6 shells quickly reloaded and is a beast in close range. My first Squad Ace was with YING using the Six 12, though with NOKK, I prefer the FMG-9. Just slap on a Flash Hider and 1.5x scope and your golden.

    JACKAL mains hardly exist because of his high ban-rate. And they all seem to use the C7E and the USP40.
    WARDEN on the other hand? If you wanted to buff WARDEN, why not make him the one Defender that uses Smokes and Stuns? Make him able to force the Attackers to hesitate and flee while he is unaffected by his nades. His guns are great. If you use the MPX, use the SMG-12 so it's high fire-rate will dominate the close quarters. M590A1 and the P10-C to switch the Primary and Secondary roles.

    ACE I can see why we would need to consider changing his AK out for a different gun, given the nerf to FUZE's AK-12 will affect his loadout as well.


  • xcel30
    Original poster 640 posts

    @rambobambibambo Believe i played A LOT and i mean A LOT with shotgun nokk and other attackers to experiment with shotguns on attack, they are 90% not a viable choice, being a gimmick that you can pull out from time to time is not a realiable strat. SixSD sufferf from having one of the worst ranges in the game, one of the worse spreads in the game and one of the worse damage for shotguns in the game, it's bad really really bad, heavy recoil on thefirst shot means that it takes a long time to fire a second shot at the target if ADS, the low range and bad spread means taht hipfiring is horribly RNG even at close ranges. It's a gun you can't win unless you could just walk up and knife them for looking the other way

  • RamboBambiBambo
    150 posts

    @xcel30
    Six12SD has INSANE range.
    Tell you what. When I get home, I will make a clip of me sniping a camera from across the map with the shotty.

    The main problem, like with all Shotguns in the game, is that the pellet spread is randomized and not set to a fixed shape like with what most modern shooters have ended up doing. The result is that the enemy is taking up the center of your hip-fire reticle, but the pellets might be going around the character with only a few striking center mass.

    The trick that I have found to make most shotguns effective in siege is quick-scoping the torso's center. Usually blasts the enemy away with a single shot from 10+ feet 9/10 times. The only guns this hasn't been consistent with are the ACS12 (back when it had Buckshot) and the Bailiff .410, which is essentially a shotgun secondary that ONLY exists for site setup and hatch breaking for ORYX.

  • xcel30
    Original poster 640 posts

    @rambobambibambo

    Six12SD has INSANE range.
    Tell you what. When I get home, I will make a clip of me sniping a camera from across the map with the shotty.

    ... the game has a mechanic that a pellet will always hit dead center where your reticle is pointing when you ADS, all shotguns have a single perfect accuracy pellet but since shotguns have no headshot multiplier this doesn't matter much... so yes all shotguns can snipe any camera across all maps. Also bailiff is indeed bad combat gun but it's not made to be used in combat just like the super shorty, also bailiff only has 4 pellets instead making it indeed a bad gun but once again not an primary

    do pay attention at the fact that there is very big donut shaped pattern where you have a perfect center dot, and then they spread outwards in a donut pattern focused on the edges, not in proper cone
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  • RamboBambiBambo
    150 posts

    @xcel30
    Six12 still isn't the worst gun in the game.
    My first Squad Ace with Ying was done with the Six12. My Q929 only got two kills out of the five.

  • xcel30
    Original poster 640 posts

    @rambobambibambo and i once had an ace with blitz back in year one where he had bugged hitbox, couldn't run with shield up and was 3 armor and he sucked back then, also ying entire point is getting people blinded then killing them with no resistance, thats why at release her LMG was the worst automatic weapon in the game, because the devs made it considering that you would be fighting against fully blinded people that are not a trheat, saying you got an ace with it proves nothing. Does someone appearing and saying they got an ace with tachanka by just having good aim instantly makes the need for the rework null and that htey should reverse the character? Look i have played nokk and i am not saying this out of hate, her loudout is subpar for a fragger

    It does have a great reload speed, but horrible spread, recoil, damage just makes killing at shotgun ranges a nightmare, you saying that part of your kills came from the pistol does not improve your standing but i do appreciate your honesty,

  • RamboBambiBambo
    150 posts

    @xcel30
    Honesty is one of my best qualities.

    And had I not mentioned the kills with the pistol, I suspect that you would've responded with "Lemme guess, you still had one extra shot and didn't reload?"

  • Cab00s3Rvb2
    28 posts

    I do believe this will fix many and I mean many problems with some ops being too good, if you switch the guns around every so often you know if it's the gun or the ability or both, and the rare occasion that both together are just too good and with other ops and abilities, otherwise they are just B tier

    Ubisoft should consider this at the very least, this I can say is a good idea

  • Cab00s3Rvb2
    28 posts

    For now the idea I have for this is

    Every season ubisoft switches some/all guns around for all/some operators each season
    So the operator still has the ability and reveal if it was just the gun they had or if their ability was too good
    And no it won't be as if their guns won't be for their specific organization/country I've seen some posts that their guns aren't used for those organization/country

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