Nerf Kyoshin’s defence.5 Likes/99 Replies/1180 Views
@nydardoloth skill correlates to understanding of balance. And in your case it shows.
I just had to quote this garbage... Omg... Lmao
As we sit here, everyone .... In the realm of ForHonor KNOWS their are tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, tier 4 hero's ect...
Tell me princess @deathtocakl what is balanced between a tier 1 hero and a tier 4 hero? Even a tier 6 hero? Please enlighten me and everyone else your version of balance. Oh wait, I know already and I'm gonna say it.... You @deathtocakl play a top rated hero while your opponents play a low rated hero, that way your skillsets balance. I knew it! Lol
So yes, my understanding of balance must be a milkshake of ones and zeros, the games own true stats agree with me while you don't.
I actually play a very balanced hero. Aramusha. He's very good in duels, but not overpowered, and he's actually just average or below average in 4v4.
I'd tell you characters balance based on tiers. But I feel tier 1 in your eyes is "broken and overpowered" Also you haven't mentioned if we are talking about duels or 4s.
So I'll hold off for now.
The beacon change sides from full block stance?!
Where are the frames is this?
As you see in slow motion..my reaction was ok...
@picoancus that's just a flicker. This used to be a big problem in year 1 and 2. Essentially he didn't press both inputs for zone at the exact same time.
Mayan_Master 541 posts
ok this thread became a confussion between deathtocalk, raime and pico...
First as a spanish native speaker sometimes is hard to give the right meaning to what I read, I think Pico had it wrong accidentally.
For Nydardoloth ( I borrowed his name for my novel cause I think his name is cool, he told me it was ok ) I only can recommend that don´t be so eager to shoot your guns man, I know you had some bad encounters with Bdur and others but maybe we can try to be more civil so maybe we can reach a better understanding, anyway my not so great english normally limits me at the time of debating but my opinion of the matter and backed up by the fact that I own a next gen and a pc (with a 144 hz 1 ms response monitor, pc is capable with mediu/low to reach 150 fps) is that Kyoshin normally is not a threat...but when the person has a good reaction time and is a defensive type in 4vs 4 it can be a problem...in PC at higher levels turtles are mandatory cause unlike console, the reaction game still exists 2 or more high level Kyos are really a bad day, they can actually coordinate to spam their attacks so the others can throw their heavies while you are stun, is a very bad situation for most assassins .
Saying this in duels without his feats and free of distractions Is not a problem with my heavies (warlord or conqu) but he is still a threat against my assassins , again if the person has very good reactions and know the char. about the missing frames I don´t think he has missing frames, but the tendency of flickers are really high, some animations are downright ugly/weird and I said this since the first day (i bought him and put a few reps)I truly dislike his lights and some jankyness between stance transitions, I recon that sometimes I have a hard time reading his movements. For the matter I train only seeing animations without red markers and Kyoshin is one of the hardest to react...right now orochi three directional undodgeables are also but I learned to interrupt them with lights the moment I see he is running backwards and put his head down. With orochi I think is a matter of practice, not so with kyoshin.
Saying he is missing frames need some more evidence,I´m not saying is impossible I really think some moves are too janky, I maybe will do it in a clip,frame by frame just to be sure.
I just think he is not busted but some people that play him a lot can do very weird things.
Thank you. Someone that understand my point of view.
Not that he misses frames ( because that was my conclusion), but his moves are really hard to detect, and just dealable on the beacon of the stance. I play more team fights, and this guy is a mess... And when joined with another kyoshin teaming up, they are really a nightmare....
And i have no problem dealing with Raiders, Orochis etc etc...im cool with those. Not a matter of beeing new or different...
wolfocezosu 18 posts
@picoancus He can recovery cancel with full block, so after the cuts you will never light him fast enought if he full block again, you should know that. Pretty stupid that after we got CCU to promote ofense. Some pp dont play by that rule of 100ms less just using him. Cuz you just need to know if the attack is coming, direction doesnt matter. Same for kensei conqueror or griphon. Iframes on dodge alllow that type of play without need to read pp properly. Just panic dodge and even if someone parry 2 or 3 its just a heavy parry who cares... Hes just one of those 0 skill heroes that people like to abuse. Undogeable lights works way better that any mixups from other for them i guess.
Knight_Raime 423 posts
So I spent 10 minutes total in training staring at a Kyoshin bot only doing the stance moves. 5 minutes before i'd played any games and then 5 minutes after I was done playing for the day. I chose 2 different times just to average out potential fringe cases on my reactions. (which in case it's relevant sits somewhere between 200-220ms for single stim.) I also attempted to block and parry all of the moves. When I average out both experiences I can more consistently block the stance light than actually parry it. Just blocking his entire stance (except when the unblockable went obviously) was insanely easy. Trying to parry wasn't. I could consistently parry his zone and the UB but it was hit and miss with his light. It could be because of where I rest my guard (which is generally top) and my dead zone for top is bigger. Or it could be because the bot for some reason would input the light after entering stance faster compared to the other options where it seemed like he'd sit in it for a bit.
Anyway, I don't believe the attack is missing frames. I think the more plausible explanation here is just the animation telegraph. Both for his UB top heavy and his zone Kyoshin spins where as his light he does not. I think what potentially further trips people up with this attack is the situation it exists in. Its a 500ms light IIRC and we have those from neutral. Yet blocking his neutral lights is easier. However, the game might consider his stance light to be a combo light despite it coming from a stance. Which could explain why it looks like it's missing more of an animation compared to his neutral lights. I'm willing to meet on a middle ground and say that the animation is not the best compared to the rest of them. But I cannot agree that it's "missing frames" because to me that means there's actually something broken about the light/it's not behaving as intended.
However I don't personally take issues with this because the problem is solved just by resting your guard in that direction and reacting to everything else he does.
Missing frames was my conclusion that can be wrong.
I just think the animation does not allow a correct reading.
Its an optical thing, and with most chars you can see the blow by his animation...in Kyoshin just on the stance beacon.
But thanks for checking that out.
Thats a winning attitude. Thank you.
Knight_Raime 423 posts
Yeah i'm not fond of the animation. I think it could feel even a bit more scuffed just because he does twirl his blade around in stance so it's hard to actually follow it. That's why I bothered mentioning the spinning for the other 2 moves. Because that's easily identifiable body language that you can practice and eventually react to. In the lights case both when I was blocking and parrying I was reacting to indicator alone instead of animation. It's kind of a forced habit since I play full block stance characters a lot (since I have small brain and cannot deal with external attacks great yet.) So having to rely on indicator is usually how I can fast react to things.
MrBdur 155 posts
LOL @ feeling crazy when I was the only one visibly beefing with Nydardoloth only to come here after almost a week away to find him beefing with multiple others ahahahahahaha
Also, why did he even drag me back in to it?
And why does he think it's me and my merry band of sheep?
I'm the most obnoxious of the people here, but not the ringleader by any means hahaha!
@picoancus that kyoshin you were fighting was lagging. Due to how for honors netcide works (it's really good netcode btw). If your opponent has bad upload speed, attacks and other such things will seemingly come out at light speed. This is what also caused his zone flicker.
Also yes there's technically no window where you can get a free light attack if he tries to get into full block.
As long as he buffers it. He can full block on frame disadvantage, after any non bash or fujin cut as a recovery cancel. And after blocking any attack, he can immediately flow into full block.
The first bit of that applies to conq too. There's no free "opening" unless they try to react to an attack with it.
I think a free light would be unfair... But he could block it by reaction. Not having the time to entering Full Stance.
When i choose Kyoshin to play against bots (To learn is gameplay) he dont seem fast play. Thats a truth.
But when im defending him with another Char, it seems what i told... Its strange....