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  • JustOfficial.
    Original poster 1 posts

    1. Operators are being nerfed because they have high pick rates and not because of high wind delta. For example jäger is still picked so much because of attacker gadgets not because he is op nowdays. Also nerfing the best entry and/or softbreach because of pick rate is dumb since some operator will always take that spot. Ubisoft should instead make other operators more viable.

    2. Nerfing guns reduces pick rate for the wrong reasons. People stop playing operators after gun nerfs because they are less enjoyable not because the operator is needed any less. For example jäger zofia and ash are needed for utility but people want to play them less because of the nerfed guns.

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  • Clanker.
    4 posts

    @justofficial
    I think the real issue is Ubisoft should worry about the left-side if the delta chart, win-pick rate Operators over the right. Let’s buff and or re-work the Operators that aren’t as viable or not getting played.

    Nerfing and or tweaking Operators towards the right over the chart, will always still be played or simply replace by an Operator that fills that exact said role.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    231 posts

    @clanker I agree with you for the most part but you also have to consider how tweaking an already perfect operator can give them a flaw that can be detrimental to their success in a game, whether it be accidentally making that operator too weak or insanely overpowered. So if anything, rework the operators with low win and pick rates to make them more viable and if the untouched operators still manage to climb higher, find out a perfect way to lower their pick rate without making them useless or unusable

  • Slyrr7
    132 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ There are many problems with Siege - but among them are meta-obsessed players from Ranked and E-sports. And an UBI company that's equally obsessed with catering to that minority of players, even on their most whimsical flights of fancy.

    The E-sporters (and others) want absolute statistical conformity among all the operators and weapons. None of them picked any more/less than the others, and none performing any better or worse than the others. All K/D ratios must be equally distributed. Every weapon must have an equal kill rate in all matches. In short, their ultimate w#t dream is to see all those graphs showing level lines at all times.

    The problem is, that's impossible. There are ALWAYS going to be operators and weapons which perform better (or worse) than others. That's an inescapable, objective fact. But UBI spends every season running around like chimpanzees, trying to hyper-control every aspect of every operator, in a vain attempt to try and level out all of those graphs. It's a fool's errand, and they ought to be smart enough to realize that. Which is why players have to put up with UBI's sad attempts at micro-management. Removing X bullets from the magazine of X operator because it's 'too successful'. Increasing/decreasing recoil from other weapons to try and control their effectiveness (which is irrelevant anyway since everyone is using cheats that REMOVE all recoil). Nerfing the shield carriers to total irrelevance because Pro players whined that shields protect operators from incoming fire. Removing Zofia's withstand ability because ONE careless e-sporter forgot about that ability in one round, and it cost them the match.

    But they will never obtain that harmonic convergence which the Meta-quibblers seem to think is attainable. Never. Which means they will always be mad about something. In a perfect world? UBI would tell all the whiners out there to shut up and adapt to the GAME, instead of demanding that the game adapt to THEM.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    231 posts

    @slyrr7 that's not the point I was making, the point that I was making was that some of the operators are underperforming due to either having a weak loadout, a gadget that players don't understand or doesn't perform as well as other gadgets, and operator abilities that only make the performance of that operator more difficult than others. So in regard to weak loadouts, bad gadgets and bad operator abilities, Ubisoft should make tweaks to fix those flaws to make those operators and their weapons now viable without making them overpowered. And for the operators that are just hard to use because their gadgets are misunderstood, only apply changes that benefits to teach players ways to use that operator and their gadgets properly, there are many operators that fall under this category (for example: Amaru because not many people understand when and where her Garra Hook is to be best used, so most people end up using it on a common/obvious window or hatch where defenders are more likely to be hunkering down at. But reality, she's best used for flanking and surprising the defenders when they're occupied with either finishing setups or holding off the other attackers. Most people think that she has to rappel into the site but reality she's only meant to rappel near the site in areas that have little to no defender presence). And in regard to only changing operators that continue to climb without receiving any buffs, only make changes to prevent them from climbing further without making detrimental changes. They've already made detrimental changes to Zofia by nerfing her M762 to the point that it's unusable to players on controllers due to the fact that the recoil puts anyone using it in a disadvantage. And there were other ways to have nerfed her without making her gun so bad that it is rendered unviable. It's those changes that we don't need!

  • The.Weasel.
    5 posts

    @slyrr7 I think that you're right that it is impossible to make every operator's stats nearly equal, but for the wrong reason. Even if every operator were nearly equally effective, the problem is that some of them are more situational than others. For example, Mira is extremely strong...in the right situation. On the wrong site or used incorrectly, she can hinder her team more than help it. On the other hand, Mute and Jaeger are always going to be useful. Even if you nerf their guns, and their speed, the sheer utility of countering enemy grenades or drones and breaching gadgets/Fuze charges is never useless, and certainly never hurts your own team. For those reasons alone, the latter type of character will pretty reliably achieve much higher pick rates than the former, unless there are several options for each and every universally useful role, but only a handful of sitational operators. Even if he sucks at actually killing, Jaeger's gadget is necessary, guaranteeing him a strong pick rate.

    I just don't think that they're willing to make half a dozen anti-grenade operators, and half a dozen jamming/electrifying operators, and a few more area denial operators in the vein of Smoke and Tachanka, just to even out the pick rates by virtue of making it a coin toss whether a given team takes Jaeger or Wamai or one of a few others who do the same thing. It could easily break some unforeseen part of the meta (such as, now the attackers can't drone at all without taking Thatcher, IQ, and Kali just to find and clear the jammers from multiple stacked Mute-alikes).

  • Slyrr7
    132 posts

    @the-weasel I hear what you're saying about situational operators. I think that comes because UBI is trying to artificially inject too MUCH variety into the game, just for variety's sake. I know UBI wants to keep adding operators to keep things 'fresh', but Siege seems to have hit a point of saturation where they've run out of useful ideas. The newer operators fall into two general categories now. 1) They're just carbon copies of other operators. 2) They're so situational that they can't be relied on.

    Mostly all they're doing now is taking the existing operators, splitting apart their gadgets and abilities, then using those bits and pieces to create the 'new' operators. Which is why for all the new content, none of it actually feels new. We could say the same for the maps too - we haven't seen any new maps in ages, just 'reworks' of old maps.

    The problem with situational operators like Warden is that it's impossible to predict where or when his ability will actually be of any use - so nobody ever picks him. And the problem with copycat operators like Kali is that they take away from the original operators who share the same abilities.

    Sure, having a new face on the roster gives us a few seconds of 'oooh' and 'aaaah'. We may have lots of choices, but only a few of them are any good. While the rest stay on the bench, so it was no use adding them anyway. There are so many different situations and needs that arise in a match, so an operator that is only good for one or two specific situations will never be used. Players need operators that are good for many situations. Siege is a game where each team can only pick five players per round. So 15-20 attacker operators, and 15-20 defender operators is (IMO) plenty to choose from. Anything more is just gumming up the works. UBI should stop tossing in new operators (which aren't new anyway) just because they think it would be nifty to have 200 of each. They need to focus on a universally functional core of operators and making sure none of them are overtly broken.

    Then the stat charts will level themselves out.




  • Lie-nus
    138 posts

    @slyrr7 Spoken like someone who is completely removed from the current meta, or how the "conversation" of a match is like these days. Even ops that don't take very much part in the conversation, still have a say.

    An op like Warden acts like a buffer for smoke plants, or Ying, or perhaps a Blitz charging straight at you. Even if he isn't picked at all, the existence of a counter for these strategies plants an idea within attacking team's mind that if they rely on strategies that Warden can counter, the defending team will adapt and choose ops to start countering that strategy. And with that "conversation", Warden still has a voice. It's the kind of super meta strategy that's extremely easy to miss, but it takes place anyways.

    And remember that every op has to be made for 3 different main super categories of players: casual, ranked, and pro players (i.e. people who play for $$$). In that respect, every op, no matter if it's effectively benched or not has a say.

  • new_HUD_so_bad
    80 posts

    @justofficial
    Honestly I don't care if who and how they nerf them,
    as long as I can't fully customise my HUD or switch to the old HUD,

    I will be driven away from siege.

  • shoeschoicess
    4 posts
    This post is deleted!

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