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    supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    Anyone else actually enjoying the fact you FEEL like a competent [censored] division agent with this event? Heroic open world is only half as cancer as it usually is with this event, and unlike guardian event, its actually FUN! The reason why people used the damage glitch back in the day (apart from those that cheated for raid leaderboards and [censored] like that) was that you actually FELT POWERFUL. The enemies in this game have all the advantages, and we, supposed "super agents" feel like a bunch of children equipped with super soakers instead of guns.

    I'm not calling for nerfs to mobbs or anything, just keep this in mind if we ever get a Division 3 massive. Players.Like.To.Feel.Powerful. There is absolutely ZERO power fantasy in Division 2. There is a reason games like Diablo 3 (even though its considered the worst diablo) have people that still play them as much as they do. Because you FEEL like a [censored] badass! In those games you see a bunch of enemies and think "I'm gonna [censored] up there day!" And just charge right in there and wreck face, but its not necessarily mindless. You absolutely DO NOT get that feeling in Division 2, especially now years later where all the fun stuff has been nerfed into mediocrity. My LMG, SMG and AR build all do pretty much the same dps, feel the same, only difference is smg has less effective range. Big whoop.

    Red bars should not do anywhere near as much damage as they do now. Getting insta gibbed by red bar hyena smg guy is [censored] considering you can be fighting 3-5 of those pricks at one time! Purple and yellows? Sure, but not the "trash" level enemies. Keep the sponge but get rid of either there insane dps or keep damage as it is and nerf there accuracy. The out of cover damage is just rediculous.

    And before anyone starts, yes I know there are tanky builds out there I'm just saying.

    So my point is, I really like this event Massive, can we have it stick around for a few months? Screw the other events, they aren't anywhere near as much fun.

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  • LateNiteDelight
    992 posts

    @supadrumma4411 We're not super agents. Not even close to super agents. We're civilians with fancy ROTC training to use gadgets and prepare in case of societal collapse. We're not Tier 1 Operators, nor Clandestine Warriors - we're athletic accountants and teachers and grocery store managers who have been taught how to shoot a gun and use some military tactics.

    This game is purposefully built to not be a power fantasy at higher difficulty. Straight from the Devs mouths. If you want a power fantasy, play Hard or go play Destiny 2. This game is about struggling to piece together a shattered world - at higher difficulty, it is supposed to feel overwhelming, just like it would be if this ever happened. The whole point of the world built here, is that everything can be deadly - including these so called "trash enemies", which have the same human body as our agents, holding similar guns, firing the same bullets - why should magic make our bullets hit harder than their bullets? We have double the health/armor of a "Red" on Hard [using an all Red or Yellow build].

    How do you think the Hyena's feel, when I spend 10 total minutes killing 84 of them, as one dude [with Kelso's help on the roof, which I didn't need]? How about the True Sons when I merc 64 of them, including 4 of their top folks barely breaking a sweat?

  • dagrommit
    894 posts

    Play on normal if you want a power fantasy.

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts
    @supadrumma4411 We're not super agents. Not even close to super agents. We're civilians with fancy ROTC training to use gadgets and prepare in case of societal collapse. We're not Tier 1 Operators, nor Clandestine Warriors - we're athletic accountants and teachers and grocery store managers who have been taught how to shoot a gun and use some military tactics.


    Speak for yourself 🙂

    Remember Batman is just a business man.

    I actually liken the tech in this game to that of the Batman world.

    Anyway, as you may know from my other posts, I agree with the OP to some extent.

    The guns in this game are ridiculously under powered - if we are in fact shooting human beings and not beings from Krypton. It’s all very comical - like Roadrunner cartoon physics. Best not to think too much about it.

    And yeah, OP, play lower difficulty to make you feel better until you look at the loot you’re picking up… or better yet, try Ghost Recon Wildlands or Breakpoint for some realistic shooting 😉

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts

    I played on Heroic last night and tonight... with the Golden Bullet enabled. I ultimately turned it off tonight. While Golden Bullet improves the sponge, I found it actually hard to get the damn bullet myself. Between trying a new build that's not yet optimized and me just not being use to Heroic, I was wiping too often. Last night I did a number of Level 4 control points which was fine, I've done those before many times, but tonight I tried a couple of Heroic bounties and they were just too much. The grenadier precision was pretty amazing and in one bounty encounter there were 3 hounds in a small space which was a bit ridiculous - barely room for them to move LOL. Anyway, I just suck I guess. It was a very frustrating evening tonight. On the bright-side, the loot was a bit better, I got a few pieces for my new Tip of the Spear build. I'm enjoying the TAC-50 with the bonus ammo... being able to one-shot most non-elite enemies is very satisfying. Anyway, back to Challenging.

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @virtual-chris The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably, and dont get optimised gear untill you do heroic.......Brilliant idea Massive, absolutely stellar big brain 100 IQ idea. So you have to grind challenging for ages to use optimisation to get gear good to get gear that isn't as good on heroic......

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @virtual-chris I don't like how much damage red bars do in general, apart from that I agree with what your saying. But the damage output for what is supposed to be "trash" mobbs just doesn't feel right. More reds should spawn in greater numbers just deal half damage, but the big chungus and sniper boiz should ABSOLUTELY be able to two tap you out of cover, makes sense, they're veterans and they have been around, ditto for black tusk elitesm they're trained soldiers. But to have your armor destroyed by a stupid hyena smg [censored] that ISN'T EVEN HOLDING THE GUN IN A WAY IT COULD EVER BE FIRED, just annoys me. This game is supposedly about realism (to a degree) and yet dumb [censored] like this exists. Also the shield dudes can two tap you with PISTOL from like 50m away just blows me away.

    Like I said in my OP, I don't mind how threatening SOME enemies are, just the pinpoint accuracy of EVERY enemy type is kinda silly. No way should shotgunners and pistol bois 2 tap your armor from 50m away.

    The other comments in this post are "hurr durr play on easy or play another game except the one you currently have 500hours in hurr durr". Thank you, for at least attempting to give an intelligent reply. No wonder this game is dead when the majority of answers to any question are "hurr durr git gud scrub" nonsense.

  • printvela
    1 posts

    The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably, and dont get optimised gear untill you do heroic.......Brilliant idea Massive, absolutely stellar big brain 100 IQ idea. So you have to grind challenging for ages to use optimisation to get gear good to get gear that isn't as good on heroic

  • Oatiecrumble
    451 posts

    @supadrumma4411

    I have to disagree when you say you need a "The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably"

    You just need decent'ish rolled gear but with talents that synergize well, you certainly don't need a optimised build.

  • Noxious81
    796 posts
    The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably, (...)


    This is totally wrong. You don't need optimized gear for any activity or difficulty. Even raids or legendary content.

    What agents do need for higher difficulties is a basic understanding of some of the most important game mechanics, including how to create a proper build. The latter is especially important as a lot of agents seem to believe that maxed out attributes are the most important thing for a well working build. Which again is wrong. Having synergizing talents, attributes, brands and Gear Sets, skills etc. is much more important.

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @noxious81 There are zero mechanics. Enemies have billions of health and they know it so they can just ignore the rules of the game we players have to obey. I haven't seen a single elite on legendary or heroic even bother to use cover, what do they do, run up to your face and [censored] shoot you.

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @oatiecrumble I'm talking heroic solo, not in a group. When your taking ALL the damage and have ALL the mobbs shooting you, YES you do need an optimised build.

  • Oatiecrumble
    451 posts

    @supadrumma4411 so am i, i play solo 99.9% of the time and i can get along just fine with a non optimized build, even after drinking shi* loads of beers 🤙

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @oatiecrumble Hurr durr good for you! must have 1000000000000000IQ and a big pee pee! Must be great.

    Try running solo heroic on 250ms ping and get back to me.

  • Noxious81
    796 posts
    (...) There are zero mechanics. (...)


    If that's how you are approaching the game I don't wonder at all, why you are failing. There are a lot of mechanics that can make surviving way easier for you. And dealing damage. Yes, there are mechanics – and this already includes rather basic things like knowing which enemies to focus, where to shoot them (e. g. weak spots), where and when to take cover, when to push and when to fall back etc. yadda yadda...

    And there are talents that are very useful when playing in a group but can be rendered useless when playing solo. For example Vigilance is very useful in a group (or when playing with a shield) when you're not always in the center of the enemies' attention. When playing solo you probably will find Vigilance being on cooldown pretty often – so running Unstoppable Force might suit you better, since you will be getting the kills you need to stack the bonus and keep it up, even when being shot at.

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @noxious81 All the ai does for me is run up to my face with bajillions of health and dump damage into me. Like literally make a beeline like a [censored] [censored] straight at me. I go to cover? Enemy runs up to my face and shoots me in face! I fall back, enemy chases me and shoots me in face! The enemy KNOWS it has billions of health and i get 2 tapped and it [censored] CHEATS. Its cheap game design, there is not [censored] tacticts or anything. Because theres dozens of them and one of me they just get all the [censored] advantages. Its pathetic game design, downright lazy and [censored] infuriating to play against. And dont tell me "hurr durr stick to cover" every [censored] faction has a [censored] unit that SPAMS nades and airburst [censored] to force you OUT of cover.

    I want to make it clear, its not IMPOSSIBLE its [censored] ANNOYING to play this game.

  • Oatiecrumble
    451 posts
    @oatiecrumble Hurr durr good for you! must have 1000000000000000IQ and a big pee pee! Must be great.

    Try running solo heroic on 250ms ping and get back to me.

    I Wish
    I Wish
    Not the games fault

  • dagrommit
    894 posts
    There are zero mechanics. Enemies have billions of health and they know it so they can just ignore the rules of the game we players have to obey. I haven't seen a single elite on legendary or heroic even bother to use cover

    Each enemy archetype uses/does not use cover to different degrees, but this is patently false. In particular, snipers and controllers always attempt to use cover, though may run out in the open to get there. There are also the weak point mechanics that vary depending on the faction.

    The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably, and dont get optimised gear untill you do heroic

    Given that optimization was only added in TU12 - i.e. everyone was running heroics and legendaries for nine months without it, this is also incorrect.

  • Adrian-11
    878 posts

    @oatiecrumble

    From now on, you shall be known as Sir "BigPeePee"! LOL

    Sometimes you can explain stuff till you get blue in the face, it will fly over the heads. People obsess too much about the god-rolled gear, which is not a make/break determinant, not even close.
    I still see players over 1000 SHD with all god-rolled pieces, but with combinations that make no sense at all. And lower levels players doing better than higher levels even though the gear they have is decent, but not god-rolled.

    @Noxious81 Yes, this one! Shoot the gad damn weak points. Headshots are great, shooting the weak points is THE BEST! ... and please don't come back to tell me it's impossible because the weak points are not on the chest.

  • LateNiteDelight
    992 posts

    @supadrumma4411 so it's not the game, but your server connection?

    Nobody told you to "get gud", we explained how the Devs view player power. They talk about it in old SOTGs. Just because you want a Power Fantasy on Heroic+ or think Red should equal "trash" doesn't make it so. That's not how the Devs balanced the game.

    Normal/Hard = Power Fantasy [Player>NPC]
    Challenging = Balance
    Heroic+ = NPC>Player

    They expect you to farm for 10-50 hours at each level to gather gear to prepare you for moving up. It does drop, it just might take longer than you prefer. Once you push your gear, you can make Challenging into more of a Power Fantasy and get Heroic closer to balance [or if you use certain builds and are good at landing shots can make Heroic nearly balanced].

    They even talked about this too, where Heroic is balanced for players with at least one max roll on each piece of a synergized build, and a 2nd roll 85%+. Pieces with a Max Roll or at least 85%+ drop regularly on Challenging. Then you recalibrate a 2nd roll. Once you've done that for each piece, with talents & brands to fit your playstyle - that is when you move to Heroic [in the Devs mind].

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