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    LateNiteDelight
    990 posts

    @virtual-chris Heroic is definitely an adjustment. A playstyle or build that works smoothly on Challenging, doesn't always translate to Heroic. You just kind of need to force yourself to run them until you get used to it, if it's something you want to do. Pick your favorite mission and just keep at it for a few runs and it probably will just click at one point. Though in my opinion, unless you want to just be able to say you solo'd everything on Heroic, just stick with Challenging and learn to game the Optimization Table if you care about Loot still.

    The key for you, though, is to stop worrying about Loot so much 😉

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts

    @latenitedelight

    Yeah, I don't care about look unless I want to try a new build and I need some new pieces. For example, I wanted to try Tip of the Spear and didn't have any decent TotS pieces so I did some loot farming in the Summit on Challenging and that turned up nothing better than I already had (like Weapon Damage = 9% LOL). So I tried Heroic the last two nights farming TotS in Downtown East and got 3 max-rolled items! Heroic loot is noticably better. Anyway, my thought was that Golden Bullet might make Heroic more palatable, but that wasn't even the case. It sucks no matter what! 😄

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts
    @supadrumma4411

    I have to disagree when you say you need a "The annoying thing about heroic is that you need an optimised build to do it reliably"

    You just need decent'ish rolled gear but with talents that synergize well, you certainly don't need a optimised build.


    You may not need a fully optimized build to play higher difficulties, but it certainly helps. You do need a very effective build, that's for sure. And it definitely helps to play Heroic to get gear to put an effective build together. The garbage gear you get on Challenging is too poor to use the optimization bench with stat bars at the mid-point of the spectrum. So I agree that you need good gear to play harder difficulties and you need to play harder difficulties to get good gear. No doubt in my mind about that.

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts

    @virtual-chris Thank You! Nice to see some intelligence on this forum. This idea you can do heroic in blah blah gear, is absolute [censored].

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts
    This post is deleted!
  • Oatiecrumble
    448 posts
    @virtual-chris Thank You! Nice to see some intelligence on this forum. This idea you can do heroic in blah blah gear, is absolute [censored].

    If that's the case how come a large majority of the playerbase was doing heroic and some doing legendary without a optimization station even being in the game.........

  • supadrumma4411
    Original poster 17 posts
    This post is deleted!
  • Oatiecrumble
    448 posts

    @supadrumma4411 sorry to say but that is complete and utter garbage, a vast majority of the playerbase play solo.....and since when did massive nerf nerf nerf, the only thing they nerfed was the difficulty of the enemies and that was due to moaners.

    If you can't solo heroic maybe it's one of the following:

    • Your 250ms ping is effecting your gameplay
    • Poor build that does not synergize well
    • It's just simply not the game you want it to be


    p.s Like i said before, i play solo 99.9% of the time and i certainly don't need a fully optimized build to do it.

  • Noxious81
    796 posts
    - Your 250ms ping is effecting your gameplay
    - Poor build that does not synergize well
    - It's just simply not the game you want it to be


    Exactly this. Everything else is just trying to cope with some pent-up frustration. Denying facts and categorically rejecting advice are also among the symptoms of this. 

  • Noxious81
    796 posts
    (...) The garbage gear you get on Challenging...


    I really cannot agree that you only find "garbage gear" on challenging difficulty. Recently I was just quickly doing some GB convoy hunting and some open world activities with a challenging map and all directives. I got a close to perfect Carbine 7 with Damage to Armor so that you could swap the talent, a completely godrolled IWI, nearly perfect Empress gloves with CHC and CHD as attributes plus some more decent gear in just about one hour of playing. And this has not yet taken into account the free heroic loot you additionally get from opening the Field Proficiency Cachces.

    ...is too poor to use the optimization bench (...).


    That's again because a lot of people think that Optimization is the first and only thing to do with crappy loot. It isn't. Optimization is strictly for put the finishing touches to otherwise nearly perfect gear. Optimization is a complete endgame mechanic and if someone uses it on mediocre gear or before having put together some proper builds, then they are just using Optimization wrong.

  • WalkinTarget1
    31 posts
    would rather stick my d*ck in a vacuum cleaner for fun


    I sense a TikTok challenge right here !!!

    First year I played the game, I ran around on Hard. Crap rolls everywhere. Second year I moved up to Challenging - better rolls, but not great. Last 6 months I run Heroic on all chars, and just this past month even have 3 directives on which greatly increases my XP gained - I used to average 5 SHD a night, now getting 15-20. Point to be made, the more you play, the better you get, since you know how to counter enemies and known spawn doors. You also know how to avoid taking dmg for the most part. I've even moved on to Glass Cannon on my 'Squad of 3' go-to builds (that I've used to complete all legendaries with as well).

    Yea, we get it .. you're mad. We've all been mad at things that this game does, but here we are - 2.5 yrs later - and we haven't found anything better to move on to.

  • Adrian-11
    878 posts

    @supadrumma4411

    But some feel like that (even more) on Heroic without the Golden Bullet. Check this out.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/n0swu3/over_7m_a_pellet_love_it_smg_also_hits_for/?ref=share&ref_source=link: (https://old.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/n0swu3/over_7m_a_pellet_love_it_smg_also_hits_for?ref=share&ref_source=link)

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts

    There’s clearly two camps here… one thinks Heroic is no problem, and others who have a problem with it. I’m in the camp that has a problem with it. It’s damn difficult, largely due to crazy sponge (way more sponge bob elites everywhere), but also ridiculously accurate grenadiers dropping air bursts right on your head, and named bosses using skills, and lots more enemy numbers (3 war hounds in a small room). It’s tough. I don’t like it because it’s just way too much effort, I wipe too often and it’s not fun. It’s not because of my ping or my build. It could be that I suck, sure. But I’m a good player. So in my eyes, it’s just too damn spongy and difficult. And the worst thing is that you need to play it to get decent loot. It’s frustrating. I think the veterans who think it’s no problem could at least acknowledge that some of us find it frustrating rather than being completely dismissive.

  • LateNiteDelight
    990 posts

    @virtual-chris you don't need to play Heroic for better loot, you just get it faster doing so 👩‍🏫

    I honestly enjoy the increased grenade accuracy, more difficult enemies, etc - I just dislike the sponge part. I find that bit annoying and immersion breaking. Maybe the simple fix is just to amp up our HS multiplier, so they reward accurate headshots on unarmored domes [or make heads only Health?], but can pretend Heroic enemies have super duper amazing body armor they won't share with the Challenging folks - maybe they have access to the Continental and their fancy fabric'd tailor 😁

    It likely is just a matter of running it more until you adjust to the differences. It took me a while, and I'll never truly accept the sponge, but eventually I figured out how to handle Heroic. Then your GS improves, making it easier too. Then you just stop playing it and go back to Challenging..

  • Adrian-11
    878 posts

    @virtual-chris

    I think most of the veterans did acknowledge it could be frustrating [sponge + loot grade], hence they provided quite a few options/advices on how to mitigate. Not exactly sure how much those pieces of advice were considered, but I could see some were outright dismissed.

    As for the airburst grenades and BT precision with those, yeah you are right, they are like that. But note that you will not encounter BT until end-game, and the grenadiers number, veterancy, and damage increase with the difficulty. If in early stages and lower difficulty you could find a nice spot in cover to pick NPCs one by one, the game is forcing to change that easy tactic and switch positions as you increase difficulty. Also to be tactical when you prioritize targets. Which it quite realistic IMO [within a video game limits].

    I get the sponge part [somewhat] and the fact that you desire better loot to tackle that... yet it also seems that you don't want to get out of your ways to acquire that loot [paradoxically, it would be easier and faster than what you do now], and you are still very much into the Breakdown mindset [they are very different games!].

    ... and for me the subject is closed.

    Good luck and have fun.

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts
    @virtual-chris you don't need to play Heroic for better loot, you just get it faster doing so 👩‍🏫

    No... you're wrong :D... Let me explain... I've played 500 hours (and I'm SHD level 580), looted 12,000+ items (according to the stat), and mostly on Challenging difficulty, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, that the loot is garbage. In all that time, out of 12,000 looted items, I have only received a handful of max-rolled items... a couple pairs of gloves, a couple knee pads, and a couple of guns. I've had exactly 3 exotics drop in all this time. Just the other day, I farmed TotS in on Challenging in the Summit and got several pieces, the best of which had Weapon Damage of +9%. I then did farming in Downtown East (TotS was targeted loot) on Heroic for a few hours and received 3 Tip of the Spear items with max rolled weapon damage. No amount of time spent on Challenging will ever get you the kind of loot you can get on Heroic. It's just not going to happen.

    @Adrian-11 I'm paradoxically screwed! :D. But I have used Golden Bullet to my advantage to at least get some good TotS gear on Heroic. 😄

  • LateNiteDelight
    990 posts

    @virtual-chris Then your RNG sucks, and you should consider a sacrifice to RNGesus 💆

    I get a handful of well rolled pieces any night I play. They're not necessarily the attributes or talent combos I'm looking for, which is part of the "it takes longer" bit.

    Took me 400 hours, at least half on Heroic [and 25% grouped], to get the exact Grupo Holster I needed an upgrade on. I still haven't gotten an 85%+ rolled Carbine 7 with Damage to Armor or Out of Cover on it. I also still haven't gotten an 85%+ dual Crit W&H backpack or Grupo chest to drop. Perspective on loot is highly dependent on how narrow your tastes are or if you can divorce the roll% from the random attributes/piece/talent.

  • dagrommit
    894 posts
    No amount of time spent on Challenging will ever get you the kind of loot you can get on Heroic. It's just not going to happen.


    Anecdotal, but guess what difficulty these were on? All the same mission (DUA):


    RNG can be harsh for some people, but claiming "it's not going to happen" is hyperbole.

  • Virtual-Chris
    798 posts

    @dagrommit Well you are SHD 5579 and I'm level 580... so you've been at this 10x longer than me... and I did mention I had a few max-rolled items in all that time, so it doesn't surprise me that you have a few as well 🙂

  • dagrommit
    894 posts
    @dagrommit Well you are SHD 5579 and I'm level 580... so you've been at this 10x longer than me... and I did mention I had a few max-rolled items in all that time, so it doesn't surprise me that you have a few as well 🙂


    SHD level has nothing to do with it - those were picked up on the same mission. While solo.

    That's not to imply RNG will be the same for anyone else, just demonstrating the fallacy of categorically claiming no good loot drops on Challenging.

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