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  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 798 posts

    It seems to me that adding some Weapon handling to an AR build, might actually be better than Crit Damage.

    What do you think?

    Back of the napkin math…

    1. If you have say 50 CHC and 100 CHD but poor handling such that every other shot hits the target, then one quarter of your shots will land Crit damage (200%) and one quarter normal (100%) so a net of 300% WD out of 4 rounds.
    2. If you increase handling so you land nearly every shot but that drops your CHC/CHD to 25/50 then you will do 150% damage from a Crit in one-in-four and 100% on the other three rounds on average for a net of 450% WD over 4 rounds.
    3. Even if you only hit 3 of 4 rounds with the above scenario #2 you’re still going to do more damage than scenario 1.


    Of course, your aim and range can make or break this hypothesis, but it would seem landing more shots on target far outweighs Crit damage.

    Thoughts?


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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • V4MPiR1
    216 posts

    @virtual-chris
    Wo Eric Fanning GIF
    "Here's my Weapon Handling!"

    Seriously. I don't have an issue with that myself. I'd even prioritize Headshot Damage over Weapon Handling, particularly so if I'm functioning as an SDM.

    If you're having poor accuracy, a better option would be to get 'Braced' as a vest talent, but then you miss out on some overall damage, and dynamic engagement. LMG support roles tend to be better suited for this talent (esp, the Petrov Named 'Vedmedytsya' Vest with with 'Perfectly Braced'). This opens up the door to the Black Friday, etc.

    Ultimately, it comes down to judgment and application of effective range. If you can manage that, you don't need to 'waste' the slot on pseudo-buffs.

  • V4MPiR1
    216 posts

    @virtual-chris Also bear in mind that your perspective will be significantly different at SHD 999 than it is at the lower levels. Depending on how much time you plan to invest in the game, it may be prudent to start planning to that end.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 798 posts

    I did some testing at the range today with the Shield Splinterer (I'm SHD 600 with Stability, Accuracy., WD, and CHC maxed out now). I'm using it with a TotS Chainkiller build for the TAC-50 so lots of emphasis on Headshot Damage. Even swapping one attribute from +12 CHD to +8 Handling on my WH holster gave me more DPS at the ranges I typically engage at with this... I can more reliably get headshots with the Shield Splinterer now. I think if you're running and gunning with a shield and up close, or just going for center-of-mass hits, weapon handling would be less important, but at longer ranges, and with a headshot optimized build, it definitely helps.



  • Imagine_Brata
    408 posts

    @virtual-chris And with AR like AK-M, you see a bigger difference. Which has poor weapon handling

  • blueray789
    14 posts

    This is why we use the Police M4 or Carbine7 at range as they have very good stability etc.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 798 posts
    This is why we use the Police M4 or Carbine7 at range as they have very good stability etc.


    Yeah, I've used those as well. It's fun to depart from the norm and try something different once in awhile. The Shield Splinterer looks cool and it's pretty effective with a bit of weapon handling.

  • Noxious81
    799 posts

    Soooooo... well... I think this is a really interesting topic and to make one thing clear: I really do believe that Weapon Handling is good for a DPS build.

    But to get into a little more detail, I don't think that your hypothesis is very accurate – just because I don't think that with 0% Weapon Handling you will generally be hitting 50% of your bullets with an AR. That seems a bit too optimistic to me. And your numbers are too theoretical to represent an actual build. For example, losing 50% CHD in a build would result in swapping 4 minor attributes to Weapon Handling. For losing 25% CHC we'd need to swap the minor attributes of the two remaining items the same way, plus we'd need to remove the three weapons mods with 5% CHC each. But what about Brand bonuses? The bonuses from the watch? The gear mods? Etc. pp. – which leads me to saying that this is a purely theoretic assumption and would not happen like that when creating an actual build.

    Instead I'd rather try to experiment a bit with one or two existing builds. By switching two or three attributes where possible (because I'd be surprised if only 8% more Weapon Handling would be really noticeable) or by using Braced. Which at least for me is a great DPS talent. And you don't have to sacrifice CHC or CHD. I think this is a really competitive talent – because Obliterate needs CHC and it has to be stacked first, and Glass Canon has a very clear downside. While with Braced you only need to be in cover and you instantly benefit from 45% stability, 45% accuracy, and 45% reload speed (plus some bonuses more, but these three are probably the most important in this context).

    So yeah, try to add some Weapon Handling to your AR build. I think that's a good idea. But I think you should not sacrifice too much CHC and CHD for it – especially as I don't think that you have to. Because with the watch, the gear mods, the Brand bonuses, and some weapon mods you will anyway always have some slots that can't be filled with Weapon Handling and will thus rather be used for CHC and CHD.

  • Adrian-11
    878 posts

    Alternatively, you could use Steady Handed talent on ARs (goes up to 100%), while still loading on CHC/CHD in other parts.
    For SMGs, you could go with Outsider, which converts your SMG of choice into an OP AR.

  • LateNiteDelight
    992 posts

    Weapon Handling also improves Reload Speed, which increases DPS.

    The added Accuracy & Stability really only come in to play for Consoles, or PC AR engagements beyond 25-30m outside of really wile ones [AK, for example].

    But @Virtual-Chris is correct, landing more bullets at slightly reduced damage can be a net gain. I personally just get closer to the enemy 😁

    @Adrian-11 is also correct, you could keep the Gear attributes, but change items on the gun to compensate as well. Railsplitter & Burnout are really nice if sticking with an AR [though do consider the Safety Distance or other SMG with Outsider - let's you swap some CHC for other attributes].

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 798 posts

    @noxious81 Agreed with your points in general with most DPS builds. However, I have a Tip of the Spear (w/Chainkiller chest) build all rolled for Headshot Damage as I'm using it with the TAC-50... and my backup is the Shield Splinterer. So my CHC/CHD isn't great (well pitiful actually), but my headshot damage is through the roof. So I did some testing, and in this case, sacrificing some of the little CHD I had for Weapon Handling made some noticeable improvements as I can hit more head shots with the AR at 15-25m now.

  • WalkinTarget1
    31 posts

    I dug into my stash this weekend for an AR that I have NEVER used before, and for how many loadouts I have (122 currently), that is saying something, but there sat a well rolled Glory Daze (named P416) which offers Near Sighted as its talent. I'm a big fan of the P416 as well as the Carbine 7, so I find it odd that I never tried it before. It is an absolute laser, and I know its very popular with the console crowd due to its amazing stability and handling.

  • Noxious81
    799 posts
    (...) I have a Tip of the Spear (w/Chainkiller chest) build all rolled for Headshot Damage as I'm using it with the TAC-50... (...) So I did some testing, and in this case, sacrificing some of the little CHD I had for Weapon Handling made some noticeable improvements (...).


    Absolutely! I was rather focused on DPS builds using ARs that usually incorporate high CHC and high CHD. Any other DPS build not relying on CHC and CHD is indeed way better of not investing into CHC/CHD at all. Headshot Damage and Weapon Handling go great together! And having 16% CHC or 10% CHC will not make a noticeable difference, so going for 8% Weapon Handling is a very good idea.

  • Virtual-Chris
    Original poster 798 posts
    Any other DPS build not relying on CHC and CHD is indeed way better of not investing into CHC/CHD at all. Headshot Damage and Weapon Handling go great together! And having 16% CHC or 10% CHC will not make a noticeable difference, so going for 8% Weapon Handling is a very good idea.


    That's a very good way to summarize it!

  • Oatiecrumble
    453 posts

    Handling works really well, i mean look at Golden Bullet = Zero recoil = OMG look at me go 💪

  • Chunkie__Monkie
    47 posts

    @v4mpir1 Thanks for proposing Braced. my eyes and hands aint brilliant so i tried it and wow it cured my issues, I can even use the EB or Big Horn with no recoil, yes you may lose other good talents but the hit rate and accuracy went up 20% for me me

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