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  • A0-MassivePepis
    Original poster 9 posts

    As an avid PVP player who spends ~90% of their time in the DZ, I have noticed that the quality of loot found in the DZ is absolutely awful. Given that the DZ is meant to be the highest risk loot zone in the entire game, as you have to both farm the loot then successfully extract it, all while evading rogue agents, you would expect that the quality of the loot in the DZ would be on par if not better than an average heroic mission. However, this is not the case, as almost 80-90% of all loot dropped in the DZ has truly awful rolls, most of which are so bad that you would need to pour in far too many resources to make the item remotely usable.

    Also, gear sets such as System Corruption or Yaahl Gear being DZ exclusive further adds to the problem, as system corruption pieces are impossible to find (I have found about 2 system corruption pieces over hundreds of hours in the DZ) and the pieces which do drop have awful rolls. Forcing players to wait for a system corruption/yaahl targeted loot DZ (Which may take weeks or months to rotate) and a Season 1 rerun in order to acquire pieces from a certain gear set seems incredibly counter intuitive.

    I propose the following changes:

    1. Increase the quality of loot in the DZ to be the same as a standard Heroic mission or even higher. This would incentivise players to actually farm in the DZ despite the risks, due to the loot quality being better.
    2. Allowing players to select what targeted loot they want in the invaded DZ (Similar to the loot selector in the summit). This would even out the problem of Yaahl gear and System corruption being impossible to find, as well as offering players an even riskier but more rewarding option to farm gear and DZ named items (As most PVP players tend to favour fighting in the invaded DZ).
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  • dagrommit
    672 posts
    Increase the quality of loot in the DZ to be the same as a standard Heroic mission or even higher. This would incentivise players to actually farm in the DZ despite the risks, due to the loot quality being better.


    There were complaints from the PvP crowd that people were going in the DZ to farm instead of PvP. That's partly why the devs removed the thieves den. I don't see them reversing course again, especially as the PvE crowd (i.e. the majority of the player base) would complain about being forced to go into the DZ.

  • LateNiteDelight
    511 posts

    DZ was Heroic, and they dropped it down to Challenging. I think they found people using the DZ to farm up builds faster, rather than do the Hard->Challenging->Heroic climb they intended. Doubt they will reverse course, though maybe when we hit "1.8".

    I'm all for selectable target loot in the Occupied DZ, just not sure the game can handle it? They already have issues with the DZ load in TD2, while the Summit has a maximum of 4 separate people to keep tabs on with smaller "maps".

    I still don't know why SC has such a low weighting in the DZ.. or is a DZ Exclusive for that matter..

  • WalkinTarget1
    31 posts

    Complaints from the PvP crowd ?!! Whaaa... ?!?!! Well, I must say, this is the first time I have EVER heard of such an accusation. Typically, the PvP guys are all stand-up'ish players who strive to provide a fun and safe environment in the DZ. In fact, many of them have asked how my Mom was doing (God rest her soul). They never asked me about Dad, though.

    I do miss the Thieves Den, and I will continue to harp on that fact that it made no sense to remove it. I won't devote the time to it, but I'd be curious to see just how many changes were made to appease the PvP crowd and then compare that to the PvE crowd and base it off of how many players are actually active in each respective area. Yea, they were vocal when they felt they were wronged, while we farmers just learned to adapt.

    I say be grateful we farmers didn't take our 0/0/6 skill builds into the DZ and run our AFK builds with glass cannon and flag on you guys more. You all hollered when we showed up with a 3pc Negotiators 'revenge' grenade, and now you want to nerf skill builds in the DZ ?!

  • badkarmacreepin
    26 posts

    I say be grateful we farmers didn't take our 0/0/6 skill builds into the DZ and run our AFK builds with glass cannon and flag on you guys more. You all hollered when we showed up with a 3pc Negotiators 'revenge' grenade, and now you want to nerf skill builds in the DZ ?!

    I pull out my 6-yellow status/skill build every time I see a 4-man team bullying the CP. Can't have hazpro and still do all that amped crit dmg. Keep skills where they are!

  • A0-MassivePepis
    Original poster 9 posts

    @dagrommit The DZ has never been a purely PVP oriented zone. If PVP players want to experience PVP by itself, conflict is the way to go.

    As a matter of fact, it is mostly PVE players that have complaints about the PVP crowd, as to most PVP players somebody who mainly plays the PVE content of the game is simply a free kill for the manhunt.

    By increasing the quality of the loot, possibly bringing the thieves’ den vendor back (to incentivise going rogue, which can be risky in the DZ, plus the vendor had amazing items on sale) and allowing people to select targeted loot in the DZ, the devs can solve all the issues regarding awful loot and the rarity of certain DZ iems.

  • A0-MassivePepis
    Original poster 9 posts

    @badkarmacreepin The problem is that status and skills, especially the mortar, bulwark shield and the shrapnel trap are the most broken items in the game.

    Status effect builds should make fighting other players more difficult and should be used to give yourself an advantage over an opponent when fighting them, rather than killing them instantly. As the PVE fire glitch is still prevalent in PVP, a single player shooting a fire sticky bomb with creeping status is guaranteed to instantly wipe an entire team if said player dies after applying the status effect, as the fire damage is scaled to a PVE level, meaning that any player without hazard is certainly dead.

    A proposed change to status effects would be to reduce the damage of the status effects, as status builds would still be very useful in giving your team an upper hand (fire still makes it impossible to aim down sights).

    The bulwark shield is one of the most broken skills in the game, especially with the prevalence of pistol crit builds. It is primarily designed as a defensive tool but is used as an offensive tool. A proposed change would be to significantly decrease the damage of pistols when using a bulwark shield in PVP but to increase the health of the shield, so players are forced to use the bulwark for its intended purpose, as a defensive tool.

    The mortar/artillery turret in PVP is actually fairly well balanced, however it is extremely broken in conflict due to the fact that a player can deploy a mortar to spawn kill the entire enemy team for the remainder of the game. Conflict maps as a whole need an urgent rework and skills should not be allowed to be deployed when anywhere close to the enemy spawn.

    The shrapnel trap is undeniably broken and remains glitched, as a trap will one shot any player in the game, irrespective of skill tier or the opponent’s armour when thrown on top of them. A fix for this bug is extremely simple, the shrapnel trap should not stick to players when deployed on them and should have a brief time period before they can be triggered after being deployed. I propose that shrap trap damage should be increased, as the skill should be used as a means to deny flanking routes to enemies rather than an instant kill ability.

  • A0-MassivePepis
    Original poster 9 posts

    @walkintarget1 I am arguing for better loot in the DZ, as we can all agree that the standard of loot in the DZ currently is unacceptable.

    The DZs are presented as the most dangerous areas in the game and hence the quality of the loot should be scaled accordingly. The fact that certain items are DZ exclusive makes said items incredibly difficult to farm with good rolls, as the quality of DZ exclusives remains as bad as the rest of the DZ loot.

    Also, there is a clear distinction between something being balanced and something that is clearly broken. Having negotiator’s dilemma shoot a grenade at you so fast that you cannot dodge or roll away and then have that grenade one shot you is clearly broken.

    I suppose that you also think that a shrap trap that will instantly one shot another player with 3 million armour without any skill tiers is also balanced?

    I welcome you to try your “afk” skill build in the DZ and see how that gets you. Your drone/turret will be destroyed in a millisecond and you will just be another free kill to add to the manhunt.

    I think that increasing DZ loot and letting players select targeted loot in the DZ would create a better experience in the DZ, as players who play for the PVP can acquire some decent loot while fighting and PVE players have an alternative to the summit, which can get incredibly repetitive after a while.

  • dagrommit
    672 posts
    As a matter of fact, it is mostly PVE players that have complaints about the PVP crowd


    LOL, this ignores the reality of what drove the reduction in DZ loot quality, and removal of the thieves den in the first place. Or the nerf of Imperial Dynasty. Or the removal of specialization weapons in the DZ.

  • XMdead
    92 posts

    A simple solution to many (not all) of the DZ problems is to take advantage that we have 3 DZs and dedicate each for a different purpose:

    • One DZ for PvE farming, with good DZ-only loot, no PvP... just rely on the challenging enemies for the difficulty.
    • One DZ for single-player PvP.
    • One DZ for team vs team PvP.
  • Noxious81
    385 posts
    (...) I think that increasing DZ loot and letting players select targeted loot in the DZ would create a better experience in the DZ, (...)


    IIRC it was the PvP crowd who despised the whiny PvE farmers, only coming to the DZ for some good pieces of loot?! So I doubt that changing things back to where we were before would please either side...

    as players who play for the PVP can acquire some decent loot while fighting (...)


    I highly doubt that most players engaging other players give a flying f*** about acquiring loot. Some take on other PvP players for... well... PvP reasons... and other look out for outnumbered or distracted players to bully them. There's no room for any interest in loot.

    and PVE players have an alternative to the summit, which can get incredibly repetitive after a while.


    True, the Summit can be incredibly repetitive. But I don't see PvE oriented players entering the DZ to get their a***s handed by some PvP bullies while trying to farm gear instead of having a rather worry free PvE experience inside the Summit (even if it's a rather repetitive one).

  • LateNiteDelight
    511 posts

    @noxious81 I'm a PvE player, but I enjoy the DZ.

    Do I sometimes get my [censored] handed to me? Yep. I go in knowing it's a possibility. I just happen to enjoy the design of the DZ and running Landmarks. I'm not in there for Loot, unless a nice exclusive piece drops. If clowns start being dinks, I just leave.

    It's the best way to farm Recon Materials, and a nice change of pace from the Summit or other PvE activities once in a while.

    I just wish they would eliminate the extraction notification. Make the Occupied the "wild west" where it's easy and painless to jump between status - with Heroic loot and the Thieves Den - while the normal DZs have tradeoffs for going Rogue with some positives and negatives to doing so.

  • WalkinTarget1
    31 posts
    @latenitedelight - I just wish they would eliminate the extraction notification


    What a simple, painless way to solve at least some of the problems that exist with the DZ !!! Might I say, if I was a dev at Massive, I would have you assigned to fix that issue post haste. 👍
    Just make the DZ a larger area and do not announce to the entire DZ that you are located here and wish to extract some loot. If you wish to camp the extraction area, then others can continue to farm LMs without interruption. Multiple extraction areas without a notification is such an easy workaround compared to how it currently stands.

    I hit lvl 50 DZ on Sunday, so my goal is accomplished there, but I still find that the DZ is where I find myself headed to lately, simply due to its constant changing dynamic. I've gotten pretty damn good at avoiding the usual rogues that are there exclusively to PvP.

  • XMdead
    92 posts

    @LateNiteDelight

    There Is a very effective extraction technique that I used to use in D1. I avoid the DZ in D2 like the plague so I don't know for sure if it will work, but here it is just in case:

    1) Find a good spot to hide AWAY from the extraction point.

    2) Measure how long it takes you to run from the hiding point to the extraction.

    3) Send up the flare and run to your hiding spot.

    4) Wait until some seconds before the extraction timer runs out, timing it so that you arrive at the rope with aprox 15 seconds left. Drop seeker mines and turret just before you reach the rope.

    5) Attach your bag to the rope while the enemy deals with your seekers and turret, by which time it will be too late for them to steal your bag.

    6) Run back to cover or give them the finger if you prefer. If they kill you, your extraction is waiting safe and sound at the stash




  • LateNiteDelight
    511 posts

    @xmdead I have no issue extracting

    What I have issue with, is handholding Rogue Agents. Be aware enough of a flare and Helicopter to find it, or camp it. No announcement to make it easy for them.

    Granted, I also think they should lose access to their skills for 5s upon flagging, as their watch moves from ISAC to ANNA. Hell, one time I suggested they lose access to skills all together, but gain the Hunter Pulse on a 60s cool down, plus 5% Armor & WD. I also think flagging should make them Rogue for 1hr, with no way to return status other than wait, in the non-occupied DZs.

  • ArthurFriend
    9 posts
    I also think flagging should make them Rogue for 1hr, with no way to return status other than wait


    Lorewise the concept of going rogue and getting back SHD status within minutes or even seconds doesn't make any sense anyway. Or did anyone come across any rogue agent during the campaigns of both games or in books or comics that switched back and forth from killing SHD agents to ISAC acknowledging them as trustworthy SHD agents? This whole system is pretty much a rather lame and not well thought out idea of allowing some kind of PVP in the Division. I never liked the idea of the rogues so quickly being able to regain SHD status, that does not make sense and I don't think that it actually helps the PVP inside the DZ.

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