ubisoft discussions

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  • seediweedi
    Original poster 5 posts

    I feel like Ubisoft overlooked the way vehicles fit into the world of ghost recon, the role of vehicles should not just be to get from point A to point B quickly, Vehicles are so much more if implemented properly. Vehicles are a very important thematic gameplay element and an extension of a game's theme. As the community wants ghost recon to become a more realistic immersive squad based experience, vehicles should reflect this and should feel like an important supporting element of the squad. My suggestion for implementation:

    The role of a transport helicopters

    • serve as mobile bivouac and mission briefing center.
    • you can choose what weapons and gear to take into battle from the helicopter, choose your landing zone and time of arrival.
    • if the helicopter comes under fire you should be able to operate the door guns.
    • the helicopter should also be a place where the squad/npc pilots talks and banters (assassins creed vahalla's longboat).
    • visual implementation should be immersive and you should be able to look around the interior at your squadmates.


    Ground vehicles could also play a similar but more combat enhancing role.

    • Light vehicles should be able to be driven by ghosts or friendly npc's acting like a taxi
    • (watch dogs legion automated cars or horses from vahalla for implementation).
    • Light vehicles should feel like an extra layer of safety for ghosts and serve as mobile cover while outside of and within the vehicle, your character should automatically duck behind the dashboard to avoid gunfire if a suppression mechanic is implemented.
    • The way shooting back is implemented currently defeats this purpose as you stick your entire body outside the vehicle, realistically you should stay inside but still be able to shoot through the windshield and side windows.
    • Light vehicles should also be able to store equipment for the squad: medpacks, ammo, etc. Visual implementation would be easier in first person.



    The role Armed helicopters and armored vehicles should be limited to support only this does not have to be to the detriment of gameplay as you could still implement the player controlling the vehicles as pseudo drones or actual drones considering breakpoint.

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  • CarlosAldrighi
    3 posts

    @seediweedi breakpoint wants you to WALK just because is more the division than GR
    The only way they figure how to spawn vehycles is anoying and takes minutes
    There is another game exactly as you want using heli as the base.

    This is peaquod. Shortly arriving at LZ




  • jmagnum50
    136 posts

    I do like the idea of using transports as a restocking station and (as GRAW 2 did) as a means of switching troops or anything else of importance. One thing I don't want in a massive open world game is to constantly babysit or worry about my vehicle, because if we lose it, our mission would be a failure. I know we don't worry about that now, but I don't want to worry about that at all. The last thing I want are objectives that are a real pain.

  • seediweedi
    Original poster 5 posts

    @jmagnum50 I'm not advocating that your ground vehicle be a critical mission objective but something that adds uniqueness to a squad. One highly modular vehicle that you could customize; camo, weapons, armor, storage capacity, etc. Other vehicles would still be the world but offer less protection and overall use.


    Something that be made quite overt or covert (depending on where the game is set you could have a more overt option):



  • jmagnum50
    136 posts

    Customizing is something I would like. Mostly with the weapons. The M134 is a nice gun in popular culture, but there are some other worthy options, as well. Weapons such as the M2HB or the Mk. 19 grenade launcher. Perhaps the TOW. One gun that deserves some more attention in games would be the XM-312/XM-307. I've only seen that gun in the army of two games, and the battlefield: bad company campaigns, but I don't know if I've seen it in a Ghost Recon game. Maybe in GR2 on PS2, but it would be nice to see that gun again.

  • rugby_dog
    81 posts

    Let’s not bring any more arcade mechanics into the game please.

    Vehicles should be a re-stock point and can maybe be flown in or driven in but if you take a vehicle into combat with all the kit on and it’s destroyed you should loose all that stuff. I’m already sick of this love some people have for a GTA style game.

    GR should be a very good tactical shooter, not where people end up spending skill points and hours customising vehicles.

  • seediweedi
    Original poster 5 posts
    Let’s not bring any more arcade mechanics into the game please. Vehicles should be a re-stock point and can maybe be flown in or driven in but if you take a vehicle into combat with all the kit on and it’s destroyed you should loose all that stuff. I’m already sick of this love some people have for a GTA style game. GR should be a very good tactical shooter, not where people end up spending skill points and hours customising vehicles.


    Customization doesn't have any bearing on how tactical gameplay is, look at insurgency sandstorm and Arma and even rainbow 6 vegas, also contrary to your point even early ghost recon games had skill points albeit not a full rpg point system like breakpoint. You want highly customizable guns, outfits, but not one modular squad vehicle (I'm not advocating for every vehicle to be customizable).

  • DNH_17
    239 posts

    Let me add one thing (edit: more than one): yes, one thing I tried to create is MEDevac or even cas evac (let me talk to devs and repository dwellers over there at Ubisoft): you had this thing of Revenge in Assassin creed that randomly (too much indeed) appeared as a random quest in Origins as far as I know.
    Well this thing could be remodeled for GR (since you like cost effective investment in games).

    AC games repository related
    So yes allow players to actually recover "failures" of other players and go casevac a body that SBC (Santa blanca cartel) is about ot hang or burn or melt in acid ... so yeah
    this feature (for a price and depending on how we liberated an area would be great...
    also with different shades (depending on where we are in the game progression at).

    One can't have tier 1 medevac when just straight out of the crash at game beginning but yes they could have around Conquest mode by Outcasts maybe and possibly tier 1 ppl.
    I don't want to get too much in details but I would like to as I care these things if implemented now or in future are not haphazardedly added and create a let down and bulky unrealistic effect, and also get a lot of development work and are never used then by players (or not understood - elements that are crucial to game design of features\mechanics aka content).

    Content is not skins despite many say so. it's not. Content for me is mechanics, story, really engaging stuff... skins are art are important but it's really light stuff, it can't be called content, unless you apply like real cultural manager a story to it and a meaning. Letting players do all the job is too easy despite welcome...

    Back to topic. Medevac and cas evac, also with the very cool 9liner (voice overs , register different ones maybe even interactible from us when we call one - having a radio mecanic and a "select 9 liners" so to simulate in the tension of the moment (in case of medevac there is - in case of casevac usually not as these are operated later not during the actual mission and are often "stealth" operations) it would be really welcome, but this needs work from various part of the studios, audio, programming etc.

    Yes vehicles are a very important part.
    I never understood why a skill development in GRW (and even in GRB as far as I know) is not "allow to shoot with a pistol while on motorbike". I am not saying to be like Deacon in Days gone with the little stubby \ SEALs pirate gun, but.. at least allow that to be developed as a skill, nothing unrealistc.

    It would allow also for a biker SQUAD gameplay, like we play under the cover of bikers team inserted in bolivia and well... that's my idea I won't share more heeheh.
    Sometimes it is connected just to little modifications of a game what you can allow to play, how you allow to play it. (the skin World end you give for free is perfect for this, unfortunately doesn't allow to set a helmet on the head with NVG... so basically I play the game during the day, since at night I have the house rule we can't put NVG if we don't have nvg on the head)... that GRW skin unmodifiyability is a bad thing.

    I think yes, OP author is right... vehicles are important.
    However I add again: most of the "vehicle" thing can really defeat game narrative and the entire game experience (it would be not consistent) as player has massively done the narrative and canon of the game: WE ARE STRANDED, you remember players? Forum dwellers, we are survivors in GRB, yes situation evolves but still for most of the game we are that (aka, I don't use vehicles like in GRW)
    It's a survival experience, still anyway we could make use of vehicles of fortune.
    (and yes let me add also that Ubisoft could implement in GRW and also GRB the features that are in Watchdogs Legion repository: the fact to be dressing and also having a low detection until we get very close to enemy in specific uniform use, and such just like in WD legion as far as I know).

    This would allow again GRW to be played as clandestine OPERATOR! and also GRB to shine as it would allow the game to be played in a way that makes it really be working: we do care for our ex mates that have gone rogue, so we take tons of non lethal take downs and infiltrate as clandestine \ false flag and you know what... why you haven't thought of this?
    Because it's alpha and beta testing and you don't care. Show you care, we will reward you Ubisoft.
    It just takes little details to succeed in game design. and the game needs to be addressing a particular type of player NOT ALL!
    But again, it just takes designer and producer and developer that know what game they are developing, it seems that ubisoft doesn't understand what they are dealing with.
    wake up.

    See... there is a huge gameplay (emergent gameplay) opportunity you can allow (now I am not gonna go too deep because this would become multiplayer): but you know Frontier Games?
    Well they have had player added value that is huge by the FUEL RATS "invention". I don't need to explain what they do. you check that, tons of videos explaining.
    having people just playing as PJ on other people failures would be a TOTAL revival of the game and also a very nice way to play GAME OVER and make it shine. Game over is important to be interpreted by developers (just like Monolith production did in their SOM and SOW games and many others did since decades not just Hades or others).
    -you could simply allow ex post cas evac,
    or even!!
    -you could allow just in time med evac: other players join your session and come in for med evaccing you.. I have goose bumps.

    So yeah You got what I brought to the table, if you don't you better do, so ask.





  • jmagnum50
    136 posts

    @seediweedi I agree. The first Ghost Recon game and it's expansions had skill points or upgrade points or something for Stealth, Endurance, Weapons, and Leadership. Even Ghost Recon: Predator had you increase your operator stats by levelling up, which you did by replaying levels. Not to mention that's how you got new weapons and gear colors as well. It's a good system. It's not complex like unlocking previous skills or attributes to get the next one, whether by levelling up or practicing the current skill or anything.

  • DNH_17
    239 posts

    This post by jmagnum50 adds more details. One thing is important to allow accessibility to realism and milsimmers.
    Do not lock the tree of your skill tree (this error for example is done by indie developers of Generation Zero, but also by Ubisoft good design of AC Origins... so: no Locked tree linear unlocking).
    Also allow to reset stuff! If one goes wrong you just push the grinding if one selects something for an error, or maybe just wants to test something to see if it works better (you actually kill the player by forcing anti-QoL on them asking to play more in order to understand how to play the game : this is a horror nowadays in games - asking to enjoy the game at full deep and beatiful experience one has to scavenge the game and waste their own time in order to reach "game plus" (NG+ is like ... don't let me say what it is like... it's a prison camp, let me say that, the philosophy of being forced to play in order to achieve the good experience a game can give and I see this more and more... Poor design made on purpose to get good design "in the end"...) Ok stop you got this too.

    And regarding skills not locked, what to say more? Games like (not played) [censored] do adapt depending on what you do (that is a cool thing in a game), and also EFT (play tested for 1 year) does this.
    This would be a future development GR franchise could have also because digital technology allows incredible things and detailed programming to happen with machine learning and stuff. I wont' digress.

    Anyway one thing I don't like would be something I want to share: having Overpowered stuff, in skills, forcing the realism immersion players to accept that and nothing else.
    Some players will have to play the game barebones or just not play because the game is just overpowering fest (many skills for example in AC Origins or also in GRW were overpowered...
    Medic drone, or getting health back because I headshot ... this stuff please no).
    Keep stuff aimed at reproduction of reality, simulation etc. That's what Tom Clancy is about ... sort of jason bourne story of a SF group, with all realistic equipment ... please abandon this futuristic approach ... you do this also with other games, tons of games. Keep our GR happening on Earth, no overpowering heroes. We have normally 5-6 years between every game, let's not waste time Sisters and Brothers.

  • seediweedi
    Original poster 5 posts

    @hdwc_ Took me a while to parse through all you said, and I agree with some of it. The repurposing of the "avenge" shared world mechanic could be interesting if implemented properly. I do agree with the skins aspect, skins without a gameplay effect is pointless. To address this:

    • Vests have actual hitboxes, protection levels, storage capacity, etc.
    • Camo could have varying effectiveness based on type, Universal camos could work moderately well in all environments. while camos suited for tundra, arid, woodland, urban, etc would work very well in their respective environments while suffering in others.
    • Vehicle customization could be interesting imagine having a Electronic Warfare package that blocks or delays reinforcements but also limits the amount of storage or armor the vehicle has due to weight constraints, Extra armor which reduces the speed and weight limit or even a drone bay that launches an improved recon drone. All these could modify the look but also the purpose of the vehicle.


    But I suspect the reason Ubisoft doesn't want this is because their microtransaction riddled model of game development would be undermined by giving skins and camos purpose.

    I believe the stranded storyline approach to ghost recon was just a justification for the loot system, being stranded give a plausible explanation for a tier 1 operator having to scavenge for supplies. I honestly think this is where Ubisoft made the mistake of tailoring the story of the game behind a gameplay mechanic instead of the correct way around.

    Ubi could make game overs more impactful but I think the multiplayer rescue aspect is too ambitious for Ubisoft. Maybe just permadeath like rainbow 6 raven shield or at the very very most the capture of your operators and you have to launch a rescue mission.

  • DNH_17
    239 posts

    Thanks.
    Absolutely also the capture. We actually role played this with bulanmaster going in Culta (yes he managed to get into the cage of culta without getting spotted.
    Then we came in with a helo and 3 inserting members and liberate him. Same I thought to do in a UNI base in ML, but it's always role played stuff (however still fulfilling somehow if nicely done).

    How this happens? (the player goes in earlier while the other brief and in a few minutes he or she manages to get inside enemy lines and takes a position where he or she won't be attacked)

    This is the things I say that can be done by players, and the game gives ton of freedom in general GRW and GRB too maybe (hacking the big drones can be read as hacking or can just be totally interpreted in the complete opposite way around: it's US drone that gets in the area but after a few seconds get downed\hijacked... of course all this is "narrative\mind games"... after all, I do not feel ashamed of "playing with such" immaterial ways, story, or personal\group of players agreements over "what is what" and "why is that", in a few words, ellipsis\ implicit meanings.

    However yes having stuff, matter, mechanic that we can touch is great. The Fuel rats from Frontier Games - Elite Dangerous have invented an incredible thing, thanks for understand that "feature" and how could be interpreted. Cas is casualties (for the newbies), and cas in game are a totally untouched treasure: indeed when we die it's gameplay value that is lost.
    all the rest is needless tosay, and would be a repetition to all of the above in previous messages where we explained.
    Indeed it would be based on shared world, and let me say it's not a dev mindset totally new - GRW has the Heat map (we used it as pretense of enemy movement , however) that is actually showing that Devs for GRW thought of a shared world (data) for some use for the single player or co-op single instance, so the cas evac shared world mechanics would n't be totally new althought pretty deep to create possibly. Cas evac can also be on land, doesn't have to be on air.

    The MED evac instead on land are pretty more tense and "desperate" you know, (nothing fun to say) but blood in the pick up\ technical back side, mates trying to keep you up.
    Cas evac could be instead and should be made via air, as it's pretty anti climatic activity to do which would need for fun to be "coming from above" also to leave fast the area... (there is an example in A'stan when Seal team had to take also down several Sequoias in a A'stan valle to recover Red wing guys and also the 17 I think who were taken down by a lucky RPG which hit their Chinhook\double helic.

    Yea vest as hit boxes.
    Yes the camo effectiveness, love that. Also for enemies but especially the Watchdogs Legion Mechanic I suggested for playing the game in clandestine way also in a potential remake for GRW, not just GRB. For GRB it would allow to play clandestine all the missions as this would allow for a "social stealth" which has probably no "already-seen" in any other military game.
    Here Ubisoft is advantaged, they just need not to be shy and get the Watchdogs Legion devs genius and push it in GRB: even in 1 year from now, this would REMESH entirely the cards of players and mindboggle us : " maybe it's worth to play again the game using not just over cover but now also TRUE clandestine approach or even just that... because Wolves are after all ex mates... so no kill... So just imagine --> That's a true second youth for GRB after a horrible first youth and a quick decadence into a never matured adult\elder life. I insist.. what can a mechanic do, just one mechanic! People would play for hundreds of hours both GRB and GRW but I mean post production, what I say?, post release is very hard to open and push into it such code, hence such mechanic.

    love the exchange with you hope someone reads us, there are plenty of good ideas.
    Nice that also ubisoft is putting away the shy mask like also others tried (like Crytek) and just using the co-creative power, and make these ideas happen. Somehow.

    More stuff I really want to share, sure, not to spam: (old stuff but useful) -
    "Just for fun" when u got time...
    Check comments below this Darkdally video which is a mine of good ideas: EDIT: I dnt wanna post the link just search for yt: "THE TOP 9 THINGS WE WANT TO SEE IN Ghost Recon .." (by dark dally) and then check this old thread https://steamcommunity.com/app/460930/discussions/0/4120176169359647387/?ctp=2, I would liketo revive it but mods... i fear.. I hate warnings and bans, for just trying to be a good passionate player so I might not post. (also report hawks are everywhere nowadays, people that have fun killing you virtually so I will maybe not add more stuff there...)

    Many good ideas

    the helicopter should also be a place where the squad/npc pilots talks and banters (assassins creed vahalla's longboat). :


    these are called "barks", in dev jargon (the Dev Writer do them working with the coders)... they are pretty hard things to write as they can become heavy and out of place... ever listened to Chumbuket in the good Mad Max game? Well he's barks are a bit way to repetitive and can "ware out the player". I think it can do so if it's outcast, but if it's TIER 1 stuff, maybe can feel out of place, but yes also stuff like "the 30 seconds" call is amazing (ETA stuff), this can be seen in the really good TV serie (unfortunately canceled I won't comment besides I can say that propaganda machine is often a cultural killer) "Six" a TV serie that had 2 small seasons and had really good and realistic writing as far as I can say. So it depends on what where and who does these barks, sometime silence is better as player can actually fill that gap, actually calling themselves stuff (we do "role play", role play is big - scary - word, we do this sometimes in Bolivia going like" Loco loco Tierra, requesting taxing for S departure w\ information Sierra", as the engine turn off we do not take off immediately like 99% do but push down the pad (I switch to pad when using vehicles for more immersion, just the meta of changing control is immersive) and go like "ETD 1 minute" and other stuff... typical of air situation just cut of short for simplicity but that add immersion at least for my taste.




    See you around!

    NHT - no hud team
    voron
    over





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