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  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 447 posts

    So I know the Contractor's is the defacto "go to" for a DPS/DZ build, and it's what I've been using for some time, but playing around in the shooting range the Savannah appears more powerful.

    With the former the critical hits on my Famas max out at 459,288, while with the WHC gloves it hits 479,731.

    Now, as I understand it the 8% on Contractor's is multiplicative, while on the Savannah gloves the 5% is additive? Is this correct? If so, is it that the shooting range is not the best place to judge the true DPS power of our builds?

    Is there any benign way of testing the actual difference between these two?

    P.S. My whole reason for asking is that when I optimize my builds (not pieces, but the overall loadout) I hate having unused attributes, and I never use an LMG with this set up so consider that a wasted "slot." On the Savannahs I would use all of the attribues, but is the trade-off worth it? I don't know.





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  • badkarmacreepin
    32 posts

    @sock_monkey Pretty sure DtA is multiplicative where ever it is. And I would think the crit dmg diff you're seeing is from the 12% CHD not being on the Contractor's, but included on the W&H gloves (along with -3% DtA). That may give you more apples to apples.

    Edit: and I feel you on the wasted stats with Contractor's and Fox's, but I have tried and tried, and those two pieces are still BiS. Until they fix it or up the DtA on the two-piece W&H.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 447 posts

    @badkarmacreepin So if DtA is calculated the same on both, wouldn’t losing 3% DtA to gain 12% CHD sound like a step up? This build has 56% CHC so I’d make use of the critical hits often.

    I am uncertain of DtA vs. overall damage in calculating TTK.

  • LateNiteDelight
    968 posts

    DtA is multiplicative, regardless of the source. It's why I push (3)W&H builds over Contractors/Fox if you're not using a LMG/Rifle. The extra attribute usually makes up for the 3% loss, if you're not taking advantage of the brand bonus.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 447 posts

    @latenitedelight Thanks. That’s kinda what I was thinking too. Loss of 3% DtA seems a worthwhile tradeoff for gain of 12% CHD - at least assuming you have a high CHC (which I do in this build).

  • TxDieselKid
    258 posts

    Little % points here and there and judging tradeoffs like this are what the range is all about. Good work edging out just a few more hit points per bullet.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 447 posts

    @txdieselkid Yeah, but the range doesn't accurately give numbers on DtA that I can tell.

  • Sr_0v3rk1ll
    89 posts

    @sock_monkey this game is about give and take. you put something you take away something. as long as you stay away from handling when going red, you can't go wrong. Damage to armor or target out of cover is not better than critical hit damage or chance. Because your damage to armor or target out of cover is a percentage of the damage you are doing already. Not saying critical hit chance or damage is better. They are all the same in the end. Don't think too much about it and enjoy the game.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 447 posts

    @sr_0v3rk1ll I am totally with you. I definitely don't worry about it, but I am getting near the "end game" for myself where I have everything in the game, mostly fully optimized, and have little left to do other than tweak in the tiny extra damage/armor/etc. into my builds.

    Literally beyond that all I have to left as "goals" in the game are the couple exotics that requre special actions to get (Eagle Bearer, Bighorn and Regulus). I am not sure I am up to another relenetless grind for the last one, so I need to group up and return to raids for the first two.

  • Noxious81
    758 posts
    (...) Thanks. That’s kinda what I was thinking too. Loss of 3% DtA seems a worthwhile tradeoff for gain of 12% CHD - at least assuming you have a high CHC (which I do in this build).


    Mathematically, a higher CHD is indeed better. But when calculating with multiplicative bonuses like DtA or DtTooC and CHC in damage builds, you also always need to take the non-critical hits into account. Because a 12% increase in CHD will only apply to critical hits whereas an 8% increase in DtA will apply to every hit!

    I did three calculations, all assuming having a build with 4 red core attributes, 56% CHC and 150% CHD and a base damage of 50,000. Not considering any Brand or Gear Set bonuses or talents.

    + WHC gloves with 12% CHD
    (4 * 15% + 5%) * 50,000 = 82,500 (non-crit)
    ( (4 * 15% + 5%) * 50,000) * (150% + 12%) = 133,650 (crit)

    For 100 shots: 44 * 82,500 + 56 * 133,650 = 11,114,400 damage


    + Contractor's Gloves
    ( (4 * 15%) * 50,000) * 8% = 86,400 (non-crit)
    ( ( (4 * 15%) * 50,000) * 150%) * 8% = 129,600 (crit)

    For 100 shots: 44 * 86,400 + 56 * 129,600 = 11,059,200 damage

    So as you can see, while the Contractor's Glove deal about 4k more damage with non-crits, they also deal about 4k less damage with crits. What sets the two build variations apart is the CHC. Having more red cores or less CHC or more multiplicative bonuses might turn things around in advance of the Contractor's Gloves. So this is a pretty close call.

    Now for calculation number 3 - with improvised gloves and a 12% CHD mod:

    + improvised gloves with 12% CHD and 12% CHD mod
    (4 * 15% ) * 50,000 = 80,000 (non-crit)
    ( (4 * 15% ) * 50,000) * (150% + 12% + 12%) = 139,200 (crit)

    For 100 shots: 44 * 80,000 + 56 * 139,200 = 11,315,200 damage

    Now we can see that the non-critical hits deal 2,500 less damage than the WHC glove, due to the 5% less Weapon Damage. But the increase in CHD in this build lets the CHD rise to over 139k and thus to yb far the most damage dealt with 100 bullets in all of the above calculations.

    So maybe instead of using one or the other glove – you might want to consider the improvised gloves 😉 ?
    (Or Grupo gloves of course, in case you haven't already incorporated a Grupo item in your build.)

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