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  • Oh dear. The crossover event REALLY exposed how much better Odyssey is than Valhalla in every conceivable way.

    6 Likes/26 Replies/828 Views
    AnimusLover
    Original poster 263 posts

    Was that your intention, Ubisoft? I heard Quebec worked on both DLCs so maybe it was self sabotage lol. Booting up Odyssey after enduring the disaster that is Valhalla was like a breath of fresh air. Other than the feeling of nostalgia for one of the series’ best characters, the controls were so intuitive; like riding a bike. Basic inputs like crouching are instant, and movement in general is so fast and free. In fact, upon returning to Valhalla after Odyssey I remapped the assassination button to triangle (Y) because it occurred to me how stupid it is to have the open attack and assassination prompt mapped to the same button; I need not explain why. 

    So nice to play an AC game again where you don’t have to reload the app to fix a bug in every session. So nice to play an AC game where you know the quest won’t break on you if you do it out of order. So nice to be rewarded for exploring the map by finding a quest item that assists with a future quest before you’ve even accepted it ,as opposed to what we have with Valhalla where you spend ages trying to get into an underground hideout to grab a collectible only to find out it’s inaccessible until you progress the story. In fact, the new map in Valhalla which, again, I believe Quebec worked on actually allows you to complete it without throttling it behind story progression so there’s that at least.

    Most of all, Odyssey has a functional stealth system. In fact, at one point in the Odyssey crossover DLC you lose all your abilities and have to rely on your wits and gear alone and even Odyssey’s stealth system HANDICAPPED is still more competent than Valhalla’s. According to the patch notes the devs have apparently improved stealth A.I. but the ONLY thing I have noticed is that alerted enemies don’t instantly go into open combat anymore if you’re close enough to assassinate them quickly before they do. Overall, the stealth is STILL BAD. Enemy placements are not suited to stealth level design. Too many guards bunched up together with other guards watching their sixes, meaning you have to rely on abilities like the rats to make quick work of them. Whistling is too risky seeing as it’s hit and miss as to whether you get detected assassinating someone from a bush (sometimes not, sometimes you do). And once again, their vision cones are inconsistent - sometimes they don’t spot you even when you’re right next to them, sometimes it’s instant detection from far away. It’s just awful. Ubisoft Montreal KNOW it’s awful and they’re doing nothing about it.

    Still, while Valhalla had my attention, I figured I might as well complete some of the Siege of Paris  DLC after rage-uninstalling due to a game breaking bug. No surprise that the aforementioned game-breaking bug in the ‘Majesty in the Dark’ quest is STILL THERE I 100% the map and reached infamy level 4 anyway.  Here’s what I experienced since returning:

    • The entirety of Northern Paris is just, “barred from the other side” collectibles; it almost feels like a parody of itself. And the annoying rats make it even more of a slog.


    • Frequent frame rate drops, hitching and hard freezing.


    • Had to reload due to arrows being permanently on fire…


    • Yeeting out of the map.


    I mean, I could go on and on forever. I cannot stress this enough: people, please do not buy that paid expansion coming in March because no matter how good the trailer is what you’re going to get is what you’ve already been getting: a buggy, broken mess. At least this time we have a year’s worth of data to inform our purchasing decisions - don’t make the same mistake twice!

    If it wasn’t for the Kassandra crossover I wouldn’t have installed this trash back on my console, and playing the Odyssey side of it really highlighted how far this series has fallen since.

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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • teh_greg
    54 posts

    Yup, playing Odyssey felt soo much better compared to Valhalla. Working stealth, working perks on gear, rewarding exploration, likeable characters. Kassandra is a badass and Eivor is a wet flannel.

  • brightnessbrr
    6 posts

    The developing team is taking risks to evolve. Your feedback is good, necessary, but try to convey your words in a kinder way. Doing new things is difficult, try to be more of a member of the community by both showing what goes wrong and what you have enjoyed. That way the community can have better content in the long run, that way the people who decides to try AC games in the future can enjoy an awesome experience 🙂
    I love Odyssey, it's not "perfect" nothing really is, but it's perfect for me and I really enjoy the misthios life fully. Valhalla it's not as enjoyable, but I want to protect my settlement and see the world!

  • AnimusLover
    Original poster 263 posts

    @brightnessbrr

    Respectfully, nothing about Valhalla is "new" or "risky". This is a franchise that has been running for over a decade but you'd never know it considering how amateurish some of the present issues are. This specific engine version has been in use since Unity (2014) and the new RPG mechanics and systems since Origins (2017). Montreal had a solid basis so there's no excuse for the game releasing with this many problems. They already had a functioning stealth system in Origins (note: I say "functioning", not necessarily "good") and Odyssey so why didn't they just build on that? They already had a functioning movement/parkour system in Origins and Odyssey (again,"functioning", not necessarily "good") so why is the movement now so sluggish? They already had ‘hold to sprint’ in Origins and Odyssey as the default speed so why isn’t that an option in Valhalla?
     
    And some of the flaws within Valhalla were BROUGHT BACK after being fixed in Odyssey: Issues such as items and areas being gated behind story progression was a complaint people had about Origins. Ubisoft Quebec FIXED this in Odyssey but Montreal brought it back. Why?
    The Phylakitai system was BAD in Origins but this was FIXED with the  mercenary system in Odyssey that actually gave you an incentive to hunt mercenaries down with loot and mercenary rank perks. Montreal brought back the old system with the Zealots. Why?
    Montreal didn't take any of the lessons from Odyssey because they think they're superior to Quebec and know best, but this DLC crossover just demonstrates that, if anything, the opposite is true. What feedback Montreal DID consider from fans were from a minority and proved damaging to the game overall: https://discussions.ubisoft.com/topic/82915/how-montreal-allowed-fans-to-ruin-the-core-mechanics-of-valhalla-ubisoft-please-read?lang=en-US
     
    The time for expressing concerns in a “kind” manner is over. Montreal doesn’t listen to anything that doesn’t directly or indirectly benefit them financially anymore. I paid for the gold edition and I cannot progress in the Paris DLC because of a game breaking bug - and it's the same game breaking bug that has appeared in other reported  issues dating back as far as launch day i.e. an NPC not being able to be interacted with. They don't care because they already have my money. How many times are they going to make the same mistake before people like you stop giving them a pass?
     
    There is something about Valhalla that is FUNDAMENTALLY BROKEN from the ground up which is why every patch just ends up coming with new and/or more bugs. Rather than pooping out DLC for this broken game; they should just focus their efforts on building a new AC game from the ground upwards but they won;t because Valhalla is making them too much money.
     
    There's a quote I recall that beautifully sums up this entire crossover: If you want someone to think you're good at something don't have Ubisoft Quebec doing the same thing next to you.

  • longjohn119
    1030 posts
    And some of the flaws within Valhalla were BROUGHT BACK after being fixed in Odyssey: Issues such as items and areas being gated behind story progression was a complaint people had about Origins. Ubisoft Quebec FIXED this in Odyssey but Montreal brought it back. Why?


    I'd say that falls on the shoulders of the lead developer of both Origins and Valhalla, Ashraf Ismail ..... For some reason it is just part of his MO for game design

    Sometimes it is easy for a developer/designer to fall into a habit that's bad, as an EE that designs a lot of electronics devices I always try to see if I can improve on things and not get into the habit of just copy/pasting circuit designs. It's similar for writing music, it's easy to get into the habit of using the same chords and structures and soon everything sounds the same or gets stale


  • AnimusLover
    Original poster 263 posts

    @animuslover I've started the mastery challenges now and oh boy lol
    The reports from players are true. All it does is shine a spotlight on how bad the mechanics are and how terrible the A.I is. If there was any denying it from the apologists then the mastery challenges would surely make them concede.

    What makes me laugh is that it demands perfection with no room for error and yet the game doesn't have the decency to do the same.
    The actual tasks required of you, so far, are quite fun as it encourages you to get creative. The level design is structured in a way that you simply need to be strategic about how you go about things and there are multiple ways to tackle objectives. The problem is because the A.I. is so borked you end up having to repeat challenges simply because the game breaks on you. For instance, in one of the wolf challenges I completed all the objectives perfectly but unfortunately the main objective was to kill every guard...except that one of the guards became stuck behind a wall and he could not get up it. I did everything to make him move and nothing. His location was inaccessible to Eivor and I had to restart the entire challenge. In one raven challenge there were two guards that kept insta-spotting me either through walls or from a long distance so I essentially had to bait them into different areas and hope that their vision cone in those areas weren't broken.
    I've achieved gold on all the challenges so far but, wow, what a joke. You cannot demand perfection from your players if your game is this imperfect!


    I also did the tombs of the fallen. Quite hilarious that the devs think spikes and poison is what passes for good puzzle design. The puzzles themselves aren't even hard; they're just gated by traps so it becomes a case of just walking slowly. Go and play Brotherhood or even AC II tombs if you want good puzzles and level design.

    I'm only doing this to get 100% on the trophy list and then I will uninstall this game again never to reinstall it until they fix it. You enticed me back with the Kassandra DLC but I am not paying for that March expansion unless I hear reports of real change.

  • brightnessbrr
    6 posts

    @animuslover maybe the movement is "slow" on purpose?
    The protagonist is a drengr and should not possess a lithe built? Similarly to how wearing heavy armor makes your your stamina run out faster.
    I think they are trying to make the drengr experience feel realistic to the user ?

    Everything you mention is valid and the feedback is gold for them, this shouldn't be lost in a forum post, but also remember it's humans working on these projects, humans with deadlines and who get fatigued and miss things... But to solve issues or complains the only way I see is to move masses who agree to create tickets for them... And follow up until solved.

    Show them you care and that you expect they can provide a good post purchase experience. I am still waiting for the disappearing engravings issue in Odyssey to be addressed... Will check later today...

  • Ken_Koerperich
    68 posts

    Oh god, more AC Fanboi's....

    This game went to ____ after the 3rd AC.....

    You all supporting this ____ just made them keep churning out POS's for games.....

    How about you STOP doing that, and maybe something that is DECENT will be released!!???

    All of you have very poor tastes in games if you think this game is any good.....

  • AnimusLover
    Original poster 263 posts

    @brightnessbrr Oh, I 100% think it's slow on purpose. I don't disagree about that at all. I just think it was a bad decision. I think maybe they were trying to make it feel like Red Dead Redemption 2 which is just a slow game overall. The problem is that style doesn't fit for a game where one of the core pillars is parkour/movement. They then go on to make things worse by having Eivor bump into things unnecessarily (why?) Also, the parkour, itself, just doesn't work. Whereas the previous parkour system, prior to Origins, was all about finding the fastest way to move forward, this one seems to be all about moving down, like a platformer. As a result, Eivor always favours jumping down as opposed to across which makes activities like the flying paper more of a chore than they need to be. You can't have a movement system like this for a game with parkour as a core mechanic, it's just not compatible. Additionally, there's no excuse for not having a hold to sprint option. From an accessibility standpoint, toggle to sprint is hard on the left thumb and sprint and jog are so indistinct from one another that it's difficult to tell when Eivor is moving at full speed so I don't even bother toggling anymore unless crouched.

    Even the horse is annoying to use. They gave the horse a stamina bar - which is fine in isolation - but coupled with too many environmental obstructions and rivers slowing you down at every turn and the fact that following the road takes you around the entire country before your destination means getting around is a chore.

    Yes, I understand human beings are working on this but guess what? Customers are also human beings and deserve to be treated with respect when they give you their money. So far, as a Gold edition customer, I don't feel I have been. A lot of the aforementioned design decisions have nothing to do with deadlines. They were in the game from the start and were conscious changes made by the devs that the majority did not ask for. As for creating tickets to be resolved - Yes, that may work for other games but not this one. The specific game-breaking bug I mentioned earlier has apparently been in the game since August. Since then they have released a bunch of free DLCs , paid cosmetics, announced a new paid DLC and not even a mention from the devs about a fix or why it's taking so long. In the end I bit the bullet and just reloaded an older save losing all my recently acquired skills, abilities, 15 gold mastery challenge completion, 3/4 tomb completion and all the side stuff I had done on the map so far. I have no intention of doing them again since I only completed the Paris DLC to get my last remaining trophy but it would have been nice to complete it with everything I had acquired so far. Oh well.

    And yes, I do care...about getting what I paid for. I won't weep over the poor little rich developers.

  • brightnessbrr
    6 posts

    @animuslover
    Your expectations are part of the reason you feel unsatisfied. You paid for a game, not for a game perfectly tailored to you. I am not a game developer/designer, but the heaviness of the game seems "reasonable" for a heavy warrior under heavy/harsh circumstances (family betrayal, war, even climate). Every game should be judged independently from the others, they might be "connected" but each HAS to be unique.

    I will create tickets for issues I encounter, maybe it will help, maybe it won't. I will still follow through... I do have hope Ubisoft will keep improving, I like exploring different cultures and lands, it's fun.

  • AnimusLover
    Original poster 263 posts

    @brightnessbrr Sorry but you're dead wrong here. Nothing exists in a vacuum and this game is carrying the series title of 'Assassin's Creed' so with that you're damn right there will be expectations; that's totally reasonable. The develops work within the frame of expectations so to say that fans shouldn't have expectations makes no sense. If this was standalone viking game then it would be less irksome but even as a viking game it falls flat.
    The "heaviness" of the game (whatever that means) is irrelevant to my point.

    And yes, I paid for a game... that doesn't work.

  • DuskDragon56496
    395 posts

    Not to mention the characters in valhalla are completely unbelievable, I liked Kassandra in Odyssey. she was a strong warrior yet she was very feminine and you cared about her.The female Eivor was made to sound like a man look like a man boast like a man, the only thing feminine about her is....well hell I'm not even sure of that!!!! The character development in Odyssey was backed by great stories and and an awesome depiction of Greece and in my opinion leaves Valhalla in the dust. The one thing Valhalla does have is gorgeous graphics and in that realm Ubisoft is second to none, but unfortunately great graphics doesn't mean a great game!!!

  • tomius777
    64 posts

    @animuslover At least Valhalla run and perform fine, i cant get odyssey run fine and stable in anyway...

  • longjohn119
    1030 posts

    @tomius777 Must be on your end ...... I did a 168 hour clear the maps (including the 3 Atlantis maps) playthrough earlier this year and had one crash ..... Now I'm in a Game+ from that save and have 68 hours without a single crash. My only issues are bugs from the recent update and I've been able to work around them

    Here's a video I recorded the other day, 19 Mercs in 13 minutes ....75-80 FPS @ 1440p and it's smooth as silk

  • tomius777
    64 posts

    @longjohn119 not in my end, got 57 games installend, including 6 that has heavier requirements, still all the other games run just fine, the only one not running is odysseys

  • longjohn119
    1030 posts

    @tomius777 I have over 40 games including 3 highly modded versions of Skyrim (500+ mods each) a modded version of Witcher 3 (73 mods some quite comprehensive) and if you watched my video you can see I have mods running quite stable in Odyssey too. In fact just about every game I have is modded somewhat even HZD, RDR2, and Kingdom Come Deliverance ..... However Valhalla (unmodded because it's too unstable to mod) is a crashing mess and the single longest thread on these message boards is about Valhalla crashing all the time for no apparent reason. Valhalla isn't even remotely as stable as Odyssey and there are a lot of users here that have hundreds of hours in both games (I have over 2900 hours in Odyssey and a little over 200 in Valhalla) that will back that up.

  • katzenkrimis71
    229 posts

    Looks like we've got some passionate, budding novel writers here.

    Animus and Brightness could team up and write a sequel to In Search of Lost Time.

    Break the Guinness World Record of 3,000 pages and 9,609,000 character count.

  • tomius777
    64 posts

    @longjohn119 Yeah, thats the case with you, this is my case, look at the average FPS shown in the screenshots Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla, Origins and Valhalla run just fine, and playable, Odyssey is so unstable and nothing helps it, not ubisoft troubleshoot, not any internet fix not anything, it is nearly unplayble and FPS throws between 2-60 although in the other two newer AC games it stays more or less stable and has never hampered gameplay, every screenshot has been taken in big cities, Originsi has been taken in Memphis, Odyssey in Athens and Valhalla in Yorvik.. As i was said nothing helps, and if i lower any settings FPS only go lower... I know that my processor is very old, BUT STILL IT HAS NO PROBLEMS WITH ANY OTHER GAME.. I HAVE ALMOUST 200 GAMES IN MY LIBARIES AND ODYSSEY IS THE ONLY ONE THAT IM NOT ABLE TO GET RUN IN ANY SENSIBLE WAY.. Borderlands 3 more demanding requirements, run just fine, so it Star wars jedi fallen order, and mafia definite edition and other two new AC games and REd dead redemption 2 run too with no problems but nothing helps with Odyssey i even installed it again no effect, it is nearly unplaayable.. And by the way i have played Valhalla in total 275h and so far i have not bumped into any bad bugs, the game has crashed maybe twice full time and works really smoothly and well..

  • tcarlisle2012
    170 posts

    For me, I do rank Odyssey over Valhalla, but I rank Origins over Odyssey also. But that might just be my own bias at play, because I have always been a much deeper fan of Egyptian history than Greek mythology. But I really, really was blown away by Origins DLC with the kings in the afterlife. Yeah, it was more of a button masher than a stealth game at that point, but those were some challenging boss battles, and the art and world design was just next level stuff, on par with The Witcher 3 expansion where you end up in that fairytale land.

    So far, there just hasn't been anything about Valhalla that sticks out as being jaw dropping. Perhaps as I continue to play it, I am hoping it is coming? But will it? Time will tell I suppose.

    I would rate Odyssey's story and voice acting above Valhalla.

    About the only thing I can say Valhalla does better, is at being long and a huge map. But the repetitiveness of it just turns it into a big grind.

  • JCar4327
    701 posts

    @longjohn119 You know I'm on Xbox and Odyssey crashes all the time for me. In the past week I have had at least 3 or 4 crashes. When I say crash I mean that the game freezes and I hear a squealing noise and then it closes down to the title screen. This has went on since the launch of the game. In the early days after release it would crash 3 to 4 times a day, but it did improve after a few updates. I think in the more than 1000 hours of Valhalla game play I have maybe had 7 to 10 crashes.

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