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  • Scion_Drakhar
    Original poster 6 posts

    Hi there,
    I'm a cranky old gamer. 
    The first video game I ever played was a quarter-fed big-box arcade game called Asteroids. 
    I'm nearly 50. I've served in the armed forces. I've raised children and run businesses.
    I've also read most of Tom Clancy's books and, for the most part, I LOVED playing GR Wildlands. 
    I have a tier 1 character save and several ghost-mode saves in which I've managed to unlock the majority of the exoskeleton. 
    I say all this so you understand that I'm not just some hateful, entitled brat having a temper-tantrum and demanding you do it MY way. I believe I have some feedback regarding the focus of the Ghost Recon series and how you went astray with Breakpoint. 

    In short: I think you folks need to commit to the milsim genre. When you use the Tom Clancy name in the title of a video game you're making a statement. There's a certain expectation that goes along with that. I won't beat you guys over the head about the color coded weapons but mission design that produces over-the-top action sequences like The Great Escape... yeesh!

    I normally play the game set to Immersive, Extreme, Elite, with very close to no HUD and, for the most part, actually find the game a bit easy. (I'd like smarter and more realistic AI that doesn't just forget it was attacked while the NPCs are stepping over the dead bodies of their friends.) Then, in the Great Escape mission, all of a sudden I was in a situation without stealth, with non-stop enemies who all know where I am, unable to acess any of my items or my team while stuck in a turret shooting down the helicopters that are spawning on top of me, unable to even heal myself... that ultimately culminated in a Metal-Gear style boss fight with an attack helicopter. From the moment the scientists get into the (conveniently placed) personnel carrier that mission felt so completely out of place for anything called a Tom Clancy game. In short: that mission feels like the game itself had a psychotic episode and lost touch with its own reality. 

    Guys: just commit to the milsim. Make what you've already done better. Not with Micheal Bay style action sequences but with better realism, better AI, actual survival mechanics, limited weight capacity, etc. etc. etc. We don't need another generic shooter. We don't need another Call of Duty or Battlefield. We need more games like Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. Breakpoint is really good in many ways. All you have to do is not succumb to the desire to turn it into an anime cartoon. 

    Please! There are very few authentic tactical action shooters. Keep this series as true to the spirit of Tom Clancy's novels as you can and you'll have epic games. You don't need every game to be for everyone. Many of the real blunders in recent video games have been a consequence of a failure in clear understanding from the leadership in the development team to understand what their players really want. With this series it's actually pretty easy. 

    Anyhoo;
    apologies for the wall of text. 
    Cheers and carry on. 
    - SD

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  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1165 posts

    Don't hold me to it but I am almost certain that Ubisoft has confused the 8 to 12 year old kids with the so called Baby Boomer Generation 😬

    In other words, do not hold your breath hoping for a more grounded and gritty GR game. There is a Mod that has been out for a while, most of us PC players are using it at the moment and the majority of the Console players have also want to try it based on what we have said about and you would think UBI would acknowledge and say something about it but, nope. The old No News is Good News mantra is what they are using on us.

    Welcome though... plenty of us in our 50s, 60s and 70s here.

  • Steven527
    376 posts

    nearly 50? Oh you poor misguided young man. Nobody at Ubi reads Clancy. They probably haven't watched any of the films or tv series either. Simply put they have no idea what you are talking about. They do catch all the marvel movies though.

  • Rootimus
    51 posts

    I largely agree with OP's sentiments. Not so much over the Clancy name, though, as the Ghost Recon brand, which used to mean a game which punished mistakes and now seems to be Call of Duty: Open World edition, and aimed at the lowest common denominator, just like CoD is. It's clearly not intended for those of us who want to play deadly seriously (spoiler alert, kids: plenty of us grown-ups find that to be a fun way to play) and take on the challenge of sneaking around whilst doing bad things to bad people. Hell, half the reason I roll with my guns painted pink in Wildlands is to mock the fact that I'm exactly as well hidden from the bad guys as someone with olive drab, a ghillie suit and proper combat gear on.

    IANAL, but one might even go so far as to say they fraudulently put the GR label on Wildlands. I lasted less than two days of a five-day trial of Broken Point before I deleted it in disgust, so I can't comment on that game.

    They probably haven't watched any of the films or tv series either.


    To be fair, there's a pretty terrible disconnect between the books and movies, whether it's Cathy Ryan now being a virologist in the Jack Ryan show (and Greer no longer being an admiral), or them killing off Dan Murray in Clear and Present Danger (presumably if they make Executive Orders into a movie, Murray's zombie will be the FBI director). Don't even get me started on the Op Center and Net Farce movies. 😛 Brian Dennehy was fantastic in the latter, but it had almost zero relation to the book beyond the name.

  • jmagnum50
    136 posts

    @scion_drakhar In my opinion, I prefer they get back to the older styles from the series, like GRAW 2, with maybe a bit of FS. You know what I mean? WL and BP still play like tactical games to an extent, but overall it's alot different than the pre WL games.

  • Kean_1
    145 posts

    @scion_drakhar

    You're absolutely spot on my friend. .....and yeah, as @FcAc-No-Moe said, there are plenty of us +50's on here like me as well.

    My friends and I enjoyed WL a lot too and still feel it had a lot of potential to go in the direction of a more hardcore, military, tactical shooter. It was a deliberate and clear departure from the futuristic direction the GR franchise had been going which culminated in Future Soldier which I personally hated to be honest. It was one of the reasons I bought the game after participating in the closed and open betas. ......BP is an abomination by comparison and that's just not the ramblings of an old-time, cranky gamer as history bears that out.

    I agree that the Tom Clancy IP naturally should (and used to) mean something. Games geared toward a more authentic military, tactical experience. It's the same as the simulators from the Jane's IP I used to play on PC. Unfortunately, it seems some AAA companies would rather go with they think is a safe bet by chasing trends rather than expanding and capitalizing on what makes their franchises / games unique. We see the same in BF2042 with their hero character route and more "over the top" action which has not gone over well with a lot of their fans. Portal is the only bright spot in that game IMO and the only reason my friends and I bought it. .....but fresh management is being brought in and they recently promised changes are coming so we'll have to see.

    The problem with Ubi is that they are dead set on their vision(s) and they've said as much in the face of overwhelming criticism as of late for some of those choices they made. Recent news also reports and exodus of developers leaving Ubisoft due to conflicts of interest, stifling creativity, etc.

    The only bright side to all of this is that I believe the unwillingness of these AAA companies to recognize a market for these genres has left vacuum especially in the console space. The good news is that indie studios and smaller companies see this and have been making their way to XB and PS from PC. .....and new, more hardcore / milsim games are being developed not just for PC but with console in mind as well from the onset (thanks to the new gen systems in some cases).

    .....BI made a DayZ port and found success and so has Insurgency Sandstorm. On the horizon is Six Days in Fallujah which is still very active and slated for release in the last quarter of 2022. Hell Let Loose released just a couple months back on console and is an incredible milsim, WW2 experience. I'm kinda fried on WW2 themed games but I can appreciate this as is as a great one as WW2 games go.

    The devs of Ready or Not have shown an interest in porting their PC title to console given the overwhelming demand and reception of the game. There's Zero Six that's still in early development which (if it makes it to release) will likely be the closest thing folks like us will have to a Ghost Recon, milsim replacement.

    Bohemia Interactive made an announcement of their new Enfusion game engine and hinted at the next ARMA being based off of it. They also said the following: "The Enfusion engine is cross-platform, and thus enables the concurrent development of games for PC, Xbox and PlayStation. " Given how they were surprised and content with the success of DayZ on console, I have to imagine they are at least thinking seriously about developing ARMA4 for not just PC but also next gen consoles.

    There are several other titles I know I'm forgetting about but my point is, even if game development behemoths like Ubisoft won't recognize the market, others do and it's those that I am putting my faith in at this point. As more of these companies develop and port over their PC titles to console, it is encouraging others to do the same. ....and to create new, more hardcore oriented experiences. I said it for the past couple years but I think there is a renaissance of sorts coming to console in the milsim / hardcore genre of games especially with the release of next-gen.

  • Flanker1Six
    228 posts

    Nearly 50?! 😀 Whippersnapper! 😉

    Oh yea.................................good OP! Don't feel too bad, you're definitely NOT the Lone Ranger in your sentiments!

  • NewFool7
    51 posts

    @jmagnum50 BP is nowhere near to what WL is. Hate seeing that comparison to this day.

  • ClemsonDriver
    24 posts
    and now seems to be Call of Duty: Open World edition, and aimed at the lowest common denominator, just like CoD is


    Nah...it's more like Assassin's Creed Odyssey: Ghost Recon Edition. A handful of times i've been on a forum dedicated to a Ubisoft game like Wildlands, Breakpoint or Far Cry. And i'll see someone commenting how that game feels like another ubisoft game. And i cant really call those people crazy because i get these same feelings too when i play Wildlands and to a greater extent Breakpoint (unless i'm crazy too). You have all these map locations in Breakpoint just like how AC: Odyssey does. You go to each location and it has a couple of objectives you have to do just like how Odyssey has kill 1 captain, kill 3 lieutenants, loot 4 chests, destroy 8 doohickies, free 10 whatstheirnames. In Breakpoint you loot chests, loot intel, loot collectibles, etc. I even saw a video of a dev talking about Breakpoints Behemoths and they described they as a "mythological creature" or something like that. They're taking concepts from one game and copying it into other games and just changing the coating of it. AC: Odyssey you have the eagle to scout around...Breakpoint you have the drone...Immortals Fenyx Rising you go to vantage points and unlock faraway locations (basically a stationary drone/eagle).

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1165 posts

    If there was a GOTY trophy given to a Studio for utilizing the most assets from games from the same Company and steal the most assets from other Companies, the Paris studio would win hands down. Their innovation lies in the fact that they were smart enough to steal all of this other things w/o making the effort to come up with their own designs, and well, as cheesy as that is, you gotta give them credit and props for that... I guess!

    It was said at some point back in time when the video trailer came up, BP is the real Far Cry game that people was expecting after the Original One, sans, the Transhuman creatures.

    I am sure others can say the same about their other games but I don't play the other games so I can't agree let alone disagree

  • Rootimus
    51 posts
    Nah...it's more like Assassin's Creed Odyssey: Ghost Recon Edition. [snip]


    I'm not particularly conversant with many Ubi games, but I've certainly heard that sort of thing said before and can certainly agree that Wildlands has that aspect to it. My comment was more directed towards the adult children that approach every op as one where you run-and-gun, horrifically with un-suppressed weapons a lot of the time. "It's all about ME!" exclaims your average co-op player by their actions. I've seen better comms, teamwork and tactics playing Team Fortress 2 than I see from the average Wildlands player that I've encountered. And that's before we get to the types that seem to get off on hunting down new bros and killing them. I report 'em, Ubi refuses to ban 'em, they kill more new bros and drive them off. The game was definitely, intentionally aimed at those players.

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1165 posts
    Nah...it's more like Assassin's Creed Odyssey: Ghost Recon Edition. [snip]

    I'm not particularly conversant with many Ubi games, but I've certainly heard that sort of thing said before and can certainly agree that Wildlands has that aspect to it. My comment was more directed towards the adult children that approach every op as one where you run-and-gun, horrifically with un-suppressed weapons a lot of the time. "It's all about ME!" exclaims your average co-op player by their actions. I've seen better comms, teamwork and tactics playing Team Fortress 2 than I see from the average Wildlands player that I've encountered. And that's before we get to the types that seem to get off on hunting down new bros and killing them. I report 'em, Ubi refuses to ban 'em, they kill more new bros and drive them off. The game was definitely, intentionally aimed at those players.


    Talking about WL? No doubt but also at the Co-Op, even if not at those mature wanting gritty, grounded content as we can see by the type of enemy and teammates we got. Still, a much better shooter than BP is or would be even if given a Year 5 chance.

  • Kean_1
    145 posts

    @rootimus

    I disagree. WL was aimed at co-op for sure but more with friends. That was certainly the best way to experience that game. ....not with randoms.

    There were a lot of groups who played that game together including folks like my friends and I. Initially, the AI were even supposed to fill in empty slot on the 4 man team. lots of folks these days have at least one or two buddies they get online with at any given time to play games and this was the kind of game you could enjoy with them. That was the best way to experience it IMO.

    It is very rare that I play with randoms in any kind of co-op or even PvP game. ....but when I / we have, we usually find one or two people out of all the others we can connect with and walk away as new online friends to play the game together.

  • AI.BLUEFOX
    181 posts

    Welcome to the forum, @Scion_Drakhar. As others have pointed out a lot of us have waved goodbye to 50, so you're in good company.

    I don't think there's a particularly strong correlation between age and mil-sim, its just that a lot of us oldies cut our gaming teeth in the days when shooter games were produced with an inherent design ethos to be realistic. Immersion and a feeling of being a spec ops character in a team was a key part of the fantasy and escapism when playing the game. Since those days mil-sim games have gone further in the mil-sim direction and casual games have pushed the casual end of the spectrum way further out in the opposite direction. Younger players simply haven't been exposed enough to the potential of GR after Breakpoint's reversal.

    Ghost Recon, for me, sits better if it is a mil-sim lite kind of game as it needs to be accessible (meaning convenient to pick up and put down) as well as deep. Breakpoint lurched horribly away from that with too many of its features, whereas Wildlands in co-op got it nearly in the sweetspot for my tastes.


    I genuinely believe GR should stay true to its roots and that many younger players, as well as new old ones would enjoy it for being that.

  • EN075
    99 posts

    As others have said- welcome to the Tom Clancy fan club... population: Us.

    Your post mirrors what some folks have been saying since release in here... well not in here I guess... in the old forum. This forum is to the previous one what Breakpoint is to Wildlands. Another solution looking for a problem in the Ubiverse.

    It would be hilarious if not so tragic. I'm dubious any staff will be left to make games if people keep quitting.

    There is fun to be had- but most of this is generated by loyal community members who are working hard to produce their own fun ways of adapting the game to their own preferences. The realism mod has already been mentioned... some folks create their own mission content... others just play multiplayer and just enjoy the coop experience together.

    You sound like you're looking for what let's say 80% of people in these forums want... judging by elaborate polls put out by yet another community member it really does give the impression that the only people who don't agree is Ubisoft who is too busy bouncing between cancelled releases, NFTs and planting trees.

    Anyway man welcome to the forums...

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1165 posts
    @EN075
    You sound like you're looking for what let's say 80% of people in these forums want... judging by elaborate polls put out by yet another community member it really does give the impression that the only people who don't agree is Ubisoft who is too busy bouncing between cancelled releases, NFTs and planting trees.

    Anyway man welcome to the forums...


    Oh man, that is just wrong in a few levels... funny as all hell but wrong nonetheless 😂

  • Scion_Drakhar
    Original poster 6 posts

    Wow.
    Thanks for the welcome fellas.
    I'll be honest I normally don't get this kind of treatment in video game forums. Being a forthright, opinionated and outspoken older gent with a military and construction background, well... let's just say I tend to rub a lot of the-ah... how do I not get in trouble here? Let's say "younger folks with sensitive dispositions" (and lots of friends willing to hit the report button) the wrong way. I've been banned several times in several forums for saying something some young person decided to take offense to.
    Seriously: Thanks fellas. It really is nice to know that I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness here and that others share my frustrations with what could have easily been a really good game. All they had to do was not do stupid and implausible things.
    For instance: I just finished, "The Gun Runner" (one of the Outcast leader's faction missions). I did the base clearing solo on elite extreme with (almost) no hud. Stole everything worth stealing from the base and then, after I steal the boat, while thinking I'm home free with nothing other than a long, liesurely boat ride back to the outcast camp... wave after wave of attack helicopters that know exactly where I am spawn in hot and shooting at me! Not only that I couldn't stop driving the boat to return fire without bailing out into the ocean... where I couldn't return fire. The language that I was using while nearly beaching the boat to spawn in my magical aimbot squadmates to manage that particular absurdity was not fit for children so I won't repeat it here.
    Needless to say: I don't think what I was looking for and expecting from this game was what the -ahem- (again self editing to avoid ruffling the feathers) marketing execs stepping out of coat closets with some fresh white powder under their noses and some brand new "good ideas" that they decided to inflict on us had in mind.
    Seriously! How the hell are you supposed to deal with that without squadmates? Let alone on a difficulty setting where 1-2 bullets kills you?
    Ugh!
    Anyway.
    Once again: thanks for the warm welcome, mates.
    o7

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1165 posts

    Well, to the previous statement... being there, got a few t-shirts

    To the mission, well, what else is there to say that you didn't say already or thought about saying it but decided against posting it here for fear of being ban yet again.

    After I had gone through it and tried to beach the boat to take care of the helo only for another helo to spawn and rinse and repeat, I came to learn that if you just ride it to the outcast beach no harm will come to you no matter how many times they shot at you. Mind you, I still tried to evade the helo because, well, my logic dictates that if one doesn't want to turn into swiss cheese one has to avoid being fired upon so it took me a couple of tries to just blindly do what is the opposite of how the world turns.

  • EN075
    99 posts

    @scion_drakhar Yeah you're in pretty fair company here.

    Breakpoint was designed with the following ideology:

    1) Cheap
    2) Empty
    3) Bad

    Here's the tricky part: You can only pick 3.

    But you're in luck... We've been complaining about it for the last two and a half years so you don't have to but please feel free! There are a high speed cheerleaders who swing in to pump their positive pompoms with relentless enthusiasm for a post or two and then evaporate because they've gotten bored and moved on to the next fad.

    I can't speak for everyone here- but ALMOST everyone I've ever seen in here with any regularity did the following:

    1) Gave credit if ever there was any due
    2) Have generally only ever expected a respect for the original Tom Clancy and Ghost Recon technomilitary brand
    3) Care more about trying to help restore the brand's path to its original greatness than any other community for any other title I think I've ever seen.

    And people aren't always polite about it... Guys get frustrated, feel ignored and disrespected by the lack of authenticity at various levels of the Ubiverse where the news is rife with insights on what's happening behind the scenes in their various brothels around the world.

  • Scion_Drakhar
    Original poster 6 posts

    @en075 "Cheap, Empty, Bad"
    I don't know if I'd go that far. I actually really like the premise. It just seems like there were, once again, too many cooks in the kitchen and several of them had no business being there.
    Over and over again I think of Arkane Studios, the makers of the Dishonored series, Prey and Deathloop. They're run by a Raphaël Colantonio, who is a gamer himself, who sits down behind the M&KB or picks up the controller and ascertains for himself what it's like to actually play the game his studio is working on. You'd think this would be standard practice, right? But it is soooo obvious these days that that's the exception rather than the rule. And, speaking as a consumer and gamer who spends his hard earned money on what are, these days, rather expensive titles (averaging $60+ just for the base game) I've got to say that I'm horrified by the trend.
    GRB is not a disappointment because of it's graphics or gameplay functions (although there are some things that irritate me); it's a disappointment because it was made with no clear vision of what it should actually feel like to play. It's based on a stealth-action platform. But then some asshat came along (the afforementioned genius with the white powder and brand new "good ideas") and said "Hey! We should add this and this and this too!"... without being a gamer himself or considering the fact that those don't work within the genre. They're just an idea in his head that we, the actual gamers and consumers, now have to find workarounds for. With regard to the mission I mentioned in my previous post, "The Gunrunner": the waves of attack helicopters that spawn in literally serve no purpose. It's an absurdity born of a mind that had no business in the developmental process of this particular game. It doesn't improve the gameplay as my character only has three choices:

    1. I can drive the boat.
    2. I can bail out of the boat into the water... where I'm almost helpless.
    3. I can beach the boat and fight seemingly endless waves of attack helicopters until I'm killed.


    What kind of moronic, disconnected thinking thought this was a good idea?
    The kind that comes from someone who doesn't care what the game actually plays like so long as it sells well.
    Where it gets really frustrating is that all it takes for a game to sell well is for it to be entertaining and challenging to play. If they made these games with the elitist in mind; I'm guessing folks like myself and the fellows populating this particular thread; ie: hardcore stealth action gameplay balanced and setup to feel rewarding at the hardest difficulties with realistic and respectable AI with actual counter-insurgency tactics; ie: enemies who break up into teams and use terrifying methods to hunt for the player, recognize when elements fail to check in by radio, call for legitimate backup and drone support and NEVER go back to an un-alert state once they've been attacked... and THEN tone the game down for the more casual players... they'd have a blockbuster. I offer the original Crysis as exhibit A. The hardest difficulty level on that game was AWESOME! (The one where the enemies spoke Korean.)
    But this confused, all-over-the-place, we-forgot-who-we-are-and-what-we're-doing game development that is a consequence of the investors being overly involved in the process without having a clue game development is just crushing my interest in buying future games... not just for this franchise but all over the place.
    Seriously: game developers all over the world need to hire people with innovative ideas and a clear vision for the titles they are producing... and then get the [insert explitive here] out of the way!
    The alternative is more disapointing cluster[bleeps]s like this one.
    Cheers


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