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  • RickyC1999
    Original poster 1 posts

    Jackal is one of the most banned operators in years. I think his eyenox is too powerful even without a scan. There are many ways to nerf it: for example by reducing the visual range of the footprinst, making him follow them much more and exposing himself more to enemies. Another way to achieve the same goal is to dynamically reduce the same range, based on the movement speed of (when you stand still the range is at its maximum, when you run it is at its minimum, for example 3 meters). It will make the ability much more realistic and Jackal will no longer run following the footprints like he does now. He will be more cautious and slow.

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  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @rickyc1999 I hope you know that regardless of him being banned allot, he's not over performing and he's not over picked, in fact he has a performance rate that's below average. So nerfing him is not even necessary, especially since most people use his gadget and then get killed because they were attempting to scan because they don't just follow footsteps instead.

  • new_HUD_so_bad
    80 posts

    @hadesorso9288_
    I'd have to think radther that the majority who play Jackal are probably bad players because there are ways to deal with roaming operators without jackal.
    Also the fact that you can clear area just because you have your gadget on all the time and see 0 footsteps is find of strong tbh..

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @new_hud_so_bad regardless of that, Jackal doesn't have a high pick rate and his performance rate is below average. He has a good gadget that allot of people die trying to use or simply do not understand how to effectively use the gadget. It is an easy to use gadget but that doesn't mean one can be good with it just because it's easy to use. And on top of that, the gadget only allows for 3 scans, most people die before they can even pull off the second or third scan. And about the only thing Jackal has going for him is having good weapons, but he only shines when he's against Roamers, not Anchors. So in other words, he can easily counter anyone roaming but when it comes to an anchor operator defending site, his gadget is useless because someone or some people are actively defending the sites.

  • new_HUD_so_bad
    80 posts

    @hadesorso9288_
    Well 2 reasons why Jackal has low pickrate,

    1 good players don't need Jackal
    2 he is banned every single game how can he have high pickrate?

    When something is easy to use it doesn't matter if they are good with it, once they grasp the concept of that red footsteps are very recent and the more blue they are the longer ago they stepped in that area.

    Here's how versitile he is:

    You walk in the basement, as normal operator, you either have to risk dying to someone waiting in a corner camped in,
    or drone out every single room.
    Jackal? 0 footsteps, area clear, sees blue footsteps scans them, enemy gets pinged far away in higher floors,
    Jackal looks around for roughly 10 seconds,
    and just like that Jackal clears whole floor.

    Lot of footsteps around doorway of the same guy, oh hey look a Kapkan trap.
    Free scan on whoever closed hatch on floor above.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @new_hud_so_bad And again you're only thinking about pick rate, you're not even considering that he has a below average performance rate, so nerfing him again is only crippling someone who doesn't even have an average performance rate compared to others. So your point is irrelevant because of the fact that he's a below average operator.

    And I've said it before, a good Jackass player won't even scan foot prints, they'd follow them to get the drop on Roamers.

  • new_HUD_so_bad
    80 posts

    @hadesorso9288_
    And I told you, that good players don't need to play Jackal, which is why more bad players play Jackal.

    Since on average we can say that bad players have worse KD than good players, so does Jackal.

  • Filthy.6
    41 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ he doesn't have a high pick rate because he's constantly side lined, let me clear that up for you "THAT MEANS BANNED". Of course the Win Rate will be misconstrued considering he is most Banned which means it could differentiate between the small amount of people who get to play him which also means that the best Jackal player won't always get to use him, sometimes it will be a less successful player who uses him.
    The reason he gets Banned is because he has great fully auto weapons and in hand with those weapons his gadget is incredibly useful. The only way for Ubisoft to get his Ban Rate down which is totally doable, is to make it so that only Jackal sees his pings. If you don't agree with that idea Hades it's probably because your the guy who plays Ash every ATK round and rushes in, while having a headset, and never gives any intel or CALL OUTS.(That gameplay would also add to the overpowered Jackal ability he provides now.) Siege is an intel based game and if you're not using a headset in Ranked and arguably UnRanked, then you are hurting your team. Jackal's ability does some things that are completely against PVP gaming altogether, which are that it doesn't test a teams cognitive memory based on the main character to give call outs and actually work as a team, instead the gadget gives free intel that had little work required to get. Example: you could have walked up to Kafè on Theme Park as Jackal and less than 5 feet in a door way were footprints that you can scan without even entering the building, now that player is at a huge disadvantage because the entire ATK line up can prefire windows, doors, and soft walls.
    This gadget would be much more balanced and realistic if Jackal had to manually give call outs or he can just use his ability to his advantage to push players out of areas with his body or hope the gadget does that alone, so that the team can move forward. Jackal should be like any other OP which is situational! Not every OP is above avg in terms of success, Jackal doesn't require much skill as a player solely because of his guns but requires no skill most importantly because his gadget/intel is given so easily and freely.
    Every other OP in the game has to make call outs too, Jackal is the least vocal OP to a team, because of the gadget and needs nerfed for the online experience and even the Pro League would understand this change and they would be okay with it considering it wouldn't even effect their gameplay... well because they are always talking to each other.
    Imagine communicating in Siege, weird Ikr.


  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @filthy-6 You're trying to call me an Ash main who doesn't give call outs which is irrelevant to the topic on hand, and on top of that, regardless of Jackal's ban rate, his gadget is not as good as people say it is unless you have a whole team singling out a Roamer all together. Again the best way to play Jackal is to follow foot prints when you're not on the site to gain an upper hand against Roamers, and then to scan when you need to get into site so that way you and your team are aware of whatever angle the defending team may be holding. At this point, it seems that you're mad at me for correcting you on your last forum simply because you were wrong about the weapons and the sight attachments for attackers and defenders. Again how is it that you're Plat and yet you don't know that attackers are meant to have better weapons than defenders and how is it that you don't understand how most operators are best used. And when it comes to Jacket scanning with his gadget, it alerts defenders, specifically Roamers, and let's them know that they're being tracked and it shows said defenders to use themselves as bait in specific locations just to eliminate Jackal. Again you're Plat but yet you seem to not know anything about anything in Siege

    And if you don't know this, Jackal's gadget is very important with Intel, which is why when you see foot prints, you immediately have Intel that there's a Roamer nearby, which can be easily called out to your team to inform them that there's a defender nearby. And when you don't even you gain the advantage of having the element of surprise. So again, allot of Intel goes into using Jackal's gadget. The only time that's useless is when you solo queue and don't use a mic, which if you must know, I don't solo queue, I play in a 4 stack or a full squad, and we all use mics, so you're point is irrelevant and does not validate anything you said.

  • Filthy.6
    41 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ explain to me what the issue would be with my Jackal Nerf idea? It would only promote more team work and make Jackal more better as a Solo OP because he is too team influential. Jackal is way too Meta, we need to break the chains of Meta influences in Siege which can be done. All Ubi has to do is just fix like %8 of the Ops they are constantly Banned that actually pose real threats or issues to game play being Jackal, Clash, Sledge (even though the Community hasn't recognized it fully), & Valkyrie. It isn't hard to fix Clash either, she should be limited to how much battery her gadget has. You should only be able to have 3 bars of taze to use on her Shield. Maverick has limited use and it works for him, apply this idea to Clash and she should stop being constantly Banned. Sledge, and IDC what anyone says but he is invisibly overpowered to our Community, he completely counters Castle (including Ash and Zofia when added to a Roster) and then he can go onto opening an entire soft vertical floor open, destroy all DEF gadgets/tools in one hit, and open soft walls for rotation. He should only get 6 hits altogether in his hammer and when he is out the hammer's wooden handle should break in half and fall on the ground as a piece of intel to DEF. Also this would be balanced because every OP should be balanced in order to do half a job, NOT ALL OF IT. Siege is about Team Work and Sledge should have to require a Buck or a Team Mate's breach pads to assist him in opening up vertical floors and opening walls, and Ash or Zofia to counter Castle too.
    Valkyrie can be easily fixed, just take away one of her Cameras, she is my most played OP and even I can agree with this change. Personally I would say Ubisoft gives out gadgets to OPs like participation trophies. Nerfing Black Eyes to not work outside will not change her Ban Rate, let me just put it more clearly and use a dumb metaphor that is so dim witted it just makes sense. A human only has 2 Eyes.
    One more idea I would like to throw in here is that Mozzie should be able to pick up his drones and have a better ATK experience as a DEF player, while at the cost he should lose one of his pests.
    Mozzie takes way to long to drive his drones sometimes after hacking them and this would make him more diverse and flexible.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @filthy-6 first what's wrong with it is you want to make him a solo Op but you want to join to promote team work, and you can only have one or the other, second, how does making him the only person that's able to see his own pings a part of team coordination, it isn't, it makes him a complete solo Op. That's what's wrong with it

    So again it seems that even though you're Plat, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and you don't know anything about anything in Siege. Entry Fraggers are designed to push back Roamers and then they're used to burn the defenders utility, and clear a path for the rest of their team to get on site and they can do this by destroying defender utility or by giving their team intro depending on their gadgets. Roamers are designed to stall for time by diverting Entry Fraggers away from their teams and to put the Entry Fraggers teammates on edge to prevent then from attempting to push site. Breach Support operators are designed to breach site by any means necessary and to create a distraction to the anchor operators to move their focus on them and to take it away from the Entry Fraggers and wait for the Every Fraggers to create a party for then to take over site. Anchors are meant to hold site and prevent the attackers from even entering, and they utilize traps to keep the attackers at bay, or they eliminate attackers pushing site and make them waste ammo and utility by putting the attackers focus on them (perfect example of this is Doc, as he's able to heal himself after every little bit of damage he takes). Additional Support operators are operators who are meant to provide back up to the Breach Support operators or to the Entry Fraggers by covering flank routes to prevent upcoming flanks and by destroying defender utility with their weapons and gadgets to allow a site to be breached or for a path to be cleared and can be used to provide Intel to the other attackers. And Support operators for the defenders provide health, armor or additional utility that allows their teammates to play their roles with the advantage of extra health or utility and by burning away the attackers utility, some of these operators can also be used to roam but most can't because of the requirements of their gadgets.

    So tell me, where does your idea help in any of those aspects? It doesn't, so that's where you're wrong

  • Filthy.6
    41 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ okay... okay fine, I'm a humble guy and if you break it down for me long enough I can understand. I"m just a debater. You have to agree at least that Jackal needs some kind of nerf, meet me in the middle.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @filthy-6 yes but not towards the gadget, if anything he just needs at least a slight damage and recoil nerf, but nothing too crazy, just recoil to keep him in line with the capabilities of his gadget without making him unusable

    The best way to go about this is to give the C7E a damage decrease from 42 to 40, a 15% vertical recoil increase and a 5% - 8% horizontal recoil increase, and the PDW9 needs a damage decrease from 34 to 30 with a vertical recoil increase of 5%. And if the PDW9 is still too good then it might need a magazine decrease from 50 to 40 to keep the guns damage on par with the MP5K and MP5SD, and the ammo capacity on par with the Scorpion EVO 3 A1. The reason both weapons need a slight recoil increase is because of the fact that both guns have the smallest recoil patterns similar to a very few other guns but smaller compared to most guns in Siege.

  • Filthy.6
    41 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ you're very smart and on par with data, but I would rather see a small change to the gadget 1st. Perhaps two pings should occur no matter what footprints are scanned, he can only scan 3 times, and he can continue following footsteps. I am not opposed to your C7E nerf and I'm fully against the PDW nerf but that one could held off on until it's testing in a server.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @filthy-6 the only possible way to nerf the gadget without making his performance any worse is to make it to where foot prints disappear faster, nerfing the ability to ping is unnecessary when there are operators like Lion, Dokkaebi and IQ who can detect people with their gadgets already and combine that with the fact that most attackers already have 2 drones (1 used at the start of prep and then a back up) and with a very few operators with more than 2 drones. So pings are inevitable, and like I said, a good Jackass player will utilize their gadget to follow the foot prints of a Roamer and will ping Defenders anchoring site for a push, so the best way to go about that is to decrease the display time for foot prints. And by nerfing the display time for foot prints brings the gadgets ability to ping at a lower rate.

    And yes, nerfing the PDW9 is necessary considering that both he and Osa are already too good to use with said weapon, considering it has 34 damage, 800 RPM, and 50 +1 round magazines, so nerfing it will bring the weapons damage and RPM on par to the MP5K and MP5SD, while slightly exceeding the regular MP5, and nerfing the magazine capacity will bring it on par with the Scorpion EVO 3 A1, and utilizing said nerfs brings the weapons total statistical performance to 1.5 which is still higher than most SMG's for both attackers and defenders, but lower than the UMP-45, 9mm C1, M12, and the AUG A3, making it the 5th statistically best SMG in the game.

  • Filthy.6
    41 posts

    @hadesorso9288_ I wish they would nerf mag size on all drum mags with the way you are saying by like 10 bullets.

  • HadesOrso9288_
    282 posts

    @filthy-6 it would depend on the gun because not all guns with drum mags are all that great, for example, the G8A1 doesn't need an ammo capacity reduction because of the fact that it's statistics compared to other LMG's make it the worst LMG in the game, the only thing it excels at is having the fastest rate of fire of all the attacker LMG's which is 850 RPM. It's statistics make it equivalent to an assault rifle, but it doesn't have that much statistical value where it stands considering it stands at a 2.17 compared to every other LMG with the highest being the LMG-E with a statistical value of 8.54. So not all drum mag weapons need a nerf.

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