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  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    Nuxia is one of the most unique heros from a mechanical stand point even in todays world where we have a hero with an actual gun. However she's never really gotten time to shine. Her kit circles around the trap mechanic which unfortunately is a very inconsistent mechanic. Even in a post CCU world where swapping your guard away to counter makes it unreactable you can still react to "counter" the trap by emoting on indicator or lighting into it since she has to trap in your current guard direction. Her traps are also the way to recycle her offense and as we've seen with the likes of Raider this is a very good thing to have that's pretty essential for chain based heros. However unlike Raider Nuxia's recyclable offense isn't great. And this is in part because her kit does not really have anything to compliment her traps. Finally we have her feats, Deadly duet is a nice concept in theory but you're hard pressed to consistently find 1v1 situations especially in a meta about team fights. Caltrops is a bit too strong considering it's a T2 feat. Thread of fate is an okay effect but isn't as powerful because it only effects one target. And infection is hard to actually use with it's short effect time of 10 seconds. My rework is going to touch on what traps mean for her kit, how to make her kit compliment with her traps, and a touch up of her unique feats.


    Traps: To elaborate a bit further traps are kind of complex in that they don't really work like traditional soft feint offense as it's a mechanic that tries to solve defensive play which for arguments sake is not generally what you deal with in a dominion match very often outside of one situation. To further complicate traps they revenge lock, can be used to trap two of three directions if positioned properly, feed about a bashes worth of revenge wether they land or not, and Nuxia herself can be peeled before she actually gets to do damage since the trap itself doesn't do damage. It is difficult to outright buff her traps because of how potentially strong they can be if you make some minor adjustments. So I feel in order to buff her Traps into effective tools we need to first adjust some of these things:

    Trap changes:

    • Traps no longer do a follow up for damage
    • Traps no longer revenge lock


    I've gone on record of saying that I like revenge lock as an idea for a mechanic. However the devs have taken most methods to do so out of the game for clarity sake and I can only imagine Nuxia still has it because the devs have forgotten she has that effect. Regardless of it being intentional or not it would be insanely imbalanced of her to get my proposed power increase and be able to deny revenge while doing so. In a similar vein I think removing damage as a possibility for landing a trap is fine. Primarily because you get peeled often anyway. Removing this option in favor of utility is my idea. So with those 2 changes in mind here is what I propose traps become:

    Trap buffs:

    • Traps can now be triggered via soft feint or blocking
    • Trap soft feint is now a bash with a hitbox and is dodgable
    • Pressing GB on block automatically traps the person


    I have always been a fan of two things mechanically when it comes to rework ideas. Messing with the block state, and messing with feints. While I had some what of a rework already in my head I was struggling to put the glue together to make it fit. The new hero showcase was educational and helped me come up with this solution partially. Essentially I want her traps to enhance her kit and the only way to do that is to have her traps land more often. By giving Nuxia 2 situations that lead to traps this makes it harder to just shut her out. It addresses emoting as you'll eat the bash if you emote on indicator. This doesn't prevent someone from stuffing her with a light but hitstun will and that we will get into later. I chose to have the inverse of the hero because Trap's identity was built off of blocking. She'll be just as scary with taps from external still as well and in my opinion this setup warrants her traps as a mechanic feeding more revenge than basic attacks do where imo her current situation doesn't warrant it even given the potential traps currently have.


    Trap follow ups: Now that we've set the foundation for what traps are I have to explain what her traps lead into. The idea behind this rework is to give Nuxia a conditional activation mechanic (traps) that makes her moves better. Basically the easy way to think of it as landing trap gives X property to a move. With that explanation done here are the benefits of landing a trap:

    • Next heavy is an unblockable finisher
    • Next light input is an undodgable chain starter light
    • Pressing GB and a direction is a throw


    The idea is very simple, you're mixing between an undodgable 500ms light that is low damage but keeps your combo potential (aka the recycle component,) and a higher damage finisher that ends chains but gives you the potential for more damage if the throw ends up throwing someone into a wall or other person. But you also get the option to get a throw that doesn't guarantee damage for Nuxia herself. This would allow her to stall someone in revenge by throwing them into a wall or potentially ledge someone. (note that heavy finishers when they throw are automatic. So you cannot land her heavy finisher and then trap after.)

    Enhancing the rest of the kit: So we've established what traps are now and what they do. We've retained the ability for her to recycle her offense. But now we need to bring the rest of her kit up to speed. Her mid chain is a particularly interesting area to look at because at the moment she only has two 400ms lights. She does have the capability to include her zone into her chains and i've always assumed that this option existed to throw off the timing of her opponent in some way. However it's slow speed pretty much prevents it from ever being a mix up. And finally we also should look at her deflect.

    Proposed changes:

    • Mid chain lights are enhanced
    • The first half of Nuxias zone can be stuffed into her chain as an undodgable 600ms unfeintable heavy from Nuxia's left side
    • Neutral zone now hits twice. First hit being 500ms and the second hitting at 900ms. Second half remains trappable both through the soft feint as well as if it is blocked.
    • Deflect is now guaranteed at 15 damage and is a chain starter. Can swap guard for a 20 damage chain starting light that isn't guaranteed.


    So mid chain lights assure that Nuxia can continue to attack unless she is stopped through a parry or runs out of stamina. Considering the low damage they are I find this to be fair. But I can see an argument for lowering it from 9 to say 7 or 8 for this property to exist. Nuxia's zone being a two part attack isn't exactly original however I wanted it to have a purpose specifically for being in chain. Conq used to have a zone that could be held for multiple swings but his new zone is just a single swing of his old zone. So that's where I got the idea to add just the first half of the zone specifically in mid chain only. It is slower in chain as to not be super oppressive and an easier time to parry. But the pro is that if someone is trying to dodge mid chain you now have two undodgable options. For the regular zone I wanted to make it more usable. Unfortunately because of the way traps work in my idea her unique trap animation on landing the zone trap has to be scrapped. However i'm hoping with my changes it still makes her zone unique enough.


    Cleaning up/values and numbers: Before I get into the feat adjustments I need to list values for the things I mentioned above as well as addressing one final thing that is her dodge attacks. So let's speed through this:

    • Dodgable bash trap is 500ms
    • Traps feed 30 revenge (note this is their current value but since they're no longer doing damage they also don't apply revenge twice. number is subject to change if 30 is too low.)
    • Enhanced mid chain lights are 7-9 damage depending on what people think is fair trade for the ehanced property
    • Mid chain zone is 600ms 12 damage
    • Neutral zone 1st hit 500ms second hit occurs at 900ms 12 damage 1st hit 2nd hit 16 (so 28 total which is what her zone is currently if it lands.)
    • Heavy finisher damage is now 26 from 30 (due to power level increase)
    • Heavy opener damage is now 20 from 24 (due to power level increase)
    • Deflect guaranteed is 15, swapped is 20 and the speed of non guaranteed is 500ms.
    • Side dodge attacks now can be input from 200ms-300ms instead of being fixed at 300ms.
    • All dodge attacks and parry counter retain medium hitstun. All other instances removed.
    • Can now recovery cancel with dodges from her finishers and after a trap lands.
    • Slightly increased trajectories and tracking for her dodge attacks as well as her mid chain heavies and finisher heavies.


    I snuck in some recovery cancels at the end there because she is a "dancer" with weapons that were intended to fit that. However considering her entire kit with my buffs I thought that giving her recovery cancels after everything would be a bit much. I wanted at least some part of her kit to retain the medium hitstun properties that most people forget about purely because it's relatively unique to her. It should help prevent stuffing in some situations but doesn't completely remove it as an option. But i'm open to debate with this personally. And the dodge attack changes are just to make them more usable/comfortable without making them power houses defensively. The input change isn't strictly necessary and I don't hold hopes that the devs will ever willingly include delayable windows again outside of new hero releases.


    Feats: Unlike the extensive retooling of her kit i'm not going to be making major changes to her kit. I thought about potentially letting her activate a feat mid chain like the new hero did but ultimately I felt that would just be excessive (as it would be tagged onto trap sections,) and not really add much to her kit. So here are my suggested feat changes:

    • Deadly duet name changed to Deadly dancer. Deal 16% more damage when near 2 or more enemies.
    • Caltrops persist for 20 seconds (down from 25) with a delayed damage start of 500ms (instead of instant) Caltrops AoE buffed from 6 meters to 8 meters.
    • Thread of fate is now Threads of fate. Can chain to multiple opponents from the original target.
    • Infection lasts 20 seconds up from 10. Damage is now 5 a second instead of 10.


    The main theme behind the tweaks is to give Nuxia more of a team presence as she's always been seen as the team fighting assassin despite her feats largely not playing into this role.
    As usual because some of these are power level increases they have to be nerfed in some ways. Deadly dancer is a T1 feat that will potentially always be active for Nuxia. a 4% nerf isn't a lot though. I struggled to decide between keeping it passive but have it be a lower damage buff or let it become an active but retain the same or close to the same damage buff. The important factor here is that she can use it when near more than one person. So feedback on this is appreciated greatly. Caltrops are pretty disgusting as is for as short of a CD they have. I really am not fond of CD increases for balancing which is why I chose this route.

    they already do 2 damage which is low. But the no animation + instant damage makes them (imo anyway) unintentionally strong in ganks and 1v1s. I always assumed the point of them was to have a persisting field of damage that at worst lets you clear minion lane and at best has interesting implications with team fights. So the changes made make it a bit more reasonable against players but slightly compensates for it by having a larger area of effect. The delayed damage gives some counter play as well as let people leave if they're on the edge instead of feeding renown. I thought of having a total damage cap exist along side it's regular active time to potentially address the issue vs players. Please let me know if you like that idea more than this one. Threads of fate is an interesting CC feat (similar to ring of fire works) in that it effects someone's movement. I do see how potentially snowbally it could be now that it effects multiple people. But you let me know. And finally infection. The potential it has is high with 100HP damage at least on 2 people. But that assumes you can keep two people near each other. As this is difficult and it only having 10 seconds of time it often feels like a whiff of a T4. So the idea is to let it persist longer potentially getting more damage out of the ability. But with a more reasonable damage per tick. Numbers here like with all of the other feat numbers are adjustable.


    Closing statement/TLDR: The whole idea of Nuxia's rework was to make her identity as the hero who locks blades to be more fleshed out. I feel this is retained by having better access to her traps, better access to her throw mechanic on finishers, and having traps have a bigger more usable presence in her kit. She works as is, but seeing the game evolve as it has over time she's been left behind and her old ways of doing things do not compete with the FH of today. Above all I wanted her to remain unique despite having to lean more into blue/orange properties...even if this idea is a wash from a balance perspective I just hope that at the very least the ideas sounded/looked unique enough.

    The TLDR is traps are now conditional "bashes" that you can access more easily. Said traps give a temporary "buff" to her chain attacks that let her get started with usable and recyclable offense. Thank you for reading.

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  • undondory
    761 posts

    @knight_raime
    well that's certainly one way to look at it and the traps are still in use so you've covered my criteria of success, even if they are technically bashes but that's just nit picking. The property changes on her attacks are my favorite part of this post
    Eh I'd give it a shot if it was in game on paper it sounds... odd.

    my only official dislike is that deadly dancer name... not the feat it's self it's almost identical to my feat idea but the name doesn't give it as much "oomph" as it should, names aren't important... to most people I am one of those few exceptions

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @undondory

    Yeah it's a pretty crummy name. But duet doesn't really fit since that's a play on the 1v1 nature of it. I chose dancer because of her theme but if you have a better name suggestion i'm open to it. I appreciate you taking the time to read the long post!

  • undondory
    761 posts

    @knight_raime
    what do you expect? when I said I wanted a decent nuxia rework I meant I wanted a decent rework, I restrained my self from nit picking because it is a genuinely fresh take on the traps even if it does plays into the hand into the seemingly bash meta but I'm willing to look past it, sacrifices must be made for the greater evil- I mean good.

    now as for the name.... the base of the feat is that of a dancer (nice touch with the lore link most reworks don't do this, it warms my heart that somebody else has too much time on their hands like me) and as such it makes sense to go for such thing. BUT the feat works around how many people she fights so it's a good idea to look at names of group performers when I named my one cruel ensemble I went to a more musical side of things but I think it's best if we went for more group performer...

    whoops side track anyway we want alliteration or possibly sibilance or fricatives, something that provides hidden threat- there I go again I need to remember that people don't want to know how my head works, at least anybody normal.

    OH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT ensemble is another word for group performers, if we go for alliteration we can name it
    evil ensemble

    if this doesn't provide the required effect I'm happy to produce more examples

  • Mayan_Master
    547 posts

    @knight_raime very good ideas, I also disliked the name a bit lol.

    • Pressing GB on block automatically traps the person

    this I found very interesting, also the new aprach to the trap mechanic.
    Homever I think playerbase will avoid her even more cause It seems her playstyle with this changes will be harder than before.
    I don´t care lol I prefer difficult chars, or unique mechanics, I prefer not so streamlined or simple, with this she could be my fav.

    "Deflect is now guaranteed at 15 damage and is a chain starter. Can swap guard for a 20 damage chain starting light that isn't guaranteed"
    I will change this for 18-20 but that´s just me. I mean everyone are in agree deflects should be guaranteed this is a must.

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @undondory

    I just enjoy thanking people for reading my stuff. I still don't have the...best perspective when it comes to how I view things I create. As for your name suggestions I definitely think adding a name that refers to multiple people dancing is the right route. Despite my ability to write long walls of text my actual vocabulary capabilities are rather lacking.

  • undondory
    761 posts

    @knight_raime
    Have you considered making new feats? It's a good way to strength ideas I'll admit I'm a lot better at making new feats and cosmetic after a few tries I got the hang of it thus you got my nuxia rework (the main change being the dodge attack)

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @mayankinggaming

    I really like the idea of blocking equaling an effect. The devs are against blocking equaling damage in general but Nuxia kept it because it was apart of her mechanic. They also have removed block confirms in the past because they wanted to avoid confusion and also not create a new indicator to explain what's happening. However, Nuxia already has her own indicator and everyone understands Nuxia's trap. So I think my suggestion cleverly fits the criteria for the devs without completely changing how her mechanic works. Like it would not be difficult to explain to someone that "oh yeah blocking her heavy now lets her trap." It sounds like an addition rather than a different mechanic. Of course for balance reasons it might be a bit much (hence the revenge it gives can be tweaked) but I think the idea is fairly sound and with the auto damage mechanic being removed hopefully lessens frustration with the new capability.

    As for the deflect damage goes I made the change with slip through as a feat in mind since she has it. with slip through her guaranteed deflect damage is bumped to 18 and the non confirmed one is bumped to 24. I feel like those numbers are pretty fair but at the same time i'm also starting to take a harsher stance on how much damage deflects/full blocks give. That however is a different discussion for another time. Thanks for reading my thread!

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @undondory

    I have considered it, however given that either my next thread or the one after will change the feat system as a whole (as well as perks) I figured it would be best to save my crazier feat ideas for that thread and instead treated this rework thread as a seperate idea if it existed with today's feat system if that makes sense.

  • undondory
    761 posts

    @knight_raime
    very well

  • deathtocakl
    1482 posts

    @knight_raime question out of confusion. Blocking a heavy guarantees a trap like old shove on block? Or leads into a more unreactable trap?

    If A. Damage needs to go down to 14.

    Also think deflect should do 18

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @deathtocakl

    I think shove on block is an interesting comparison since that's done from attacking the person where Nuxia is getting the trap from her heavy being blocked. Why do you say 14? Trap no longer guarantees damage.

    As far as deflect goes would make it either 21 or 22 with slip through. I suppose that's reasonable enough.

  • deathtocakl
    1482 posts

    @knight_raime oh I see. I misread entirely. So hitting someone's block let's you "trap" where they are forced into a stun and let's nuxia do a mixup.

    I thought blocking = 22 damage trap + unique follow-ups

    Also block = guaranteed throw?

  • wolfocezosu
    21 posts

    @knight_raime [censored] rework imo. Conditional offensive like PK so she will be trash anyway. Conditional undogeable like unblockable on bleed lol. Some [censored] buffs and you are nerfing dmg already.

    Start adressing why Raider can swing the zone with that axe 8 times in a row and she can only 3 ( and if you use the trap the 3 time wont work cuz you will go oos)
    Funny how after see all the new hero moveset the said... Oh also a dodge attack, and it was a heavy dodge attack of course. But she will eat a light parry everytime having nothing else.

    The buff to T4 makes no sense to make it last long nerfing dmg cuz they will split instead of dying so you can make it last 1h if you want, they flew already. Nice try tho

  • deathtocakl
    1482 posts

    @wolfocezosu local man doesn't understand for honor at a high level.

    Probably struggles with bash spam

  • wolfocezosu
    21 posts

    @deathtocakl im PS4 if you want to give it a try. Your 800 nonsense post wont help you tho.

  • IlluminatiEyes
    1547 posts

    I will not adress to Nuxia Rework, because i dont know her at all. Never played with her, or have trouble to fight against her.

    But i know @wolfocezosu , he played sometimes with me, and he is a pretty good player, and a good duelist.
    His opinion should be valid too.

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @deathtocakl

    Yes basically. As far as the throw input goes...I could see that being potentially too good since you can now get the trap on a block. So perhaps I could just scrap that and just keep the two options. As you technically get a throw anyway if that unblockable heavy finisher lands.

  • undondory
    761 posts

    @wolfocezosu
    you have to remember that shaman is conditional and she does just fine

  • Knight_Raime
    Original poster 513 posts

    @wolfocezosu

    It's a fair comparison to make in regards to PK. However PK's condition is harder to access compared to Nuxia's so I think writing the entire rework off based on that alone is a bit much.

    Telling me my buffs are bad without explaining why doesn't really help progress a discussion.

    Stamina consumption would be a fair thing to look at since she will be attacking more. The point of posting a rework for feedback is for other players to potentially clue in the person on things they might not be aware of. No one bangs out a perfect rework on the first go of it.

    If you mean Nuxia's DA is still a light and that it should be changed i'd like to see an argument for that. Generally speaking i've noticed DA's only need to be heavies if they're important to the character's kit flow or are central to the kit. Even with the changes I make they're still primarily just punish/target swap tools. So I don't think it's required to make Nuxia's DA's heavies. But i'm also not against the idea.

    I'm having trouble understanding your issue with my T4 change. Making it last longer forces the person to stay outside the team fight longer. So even if you're not getting damage from it you're still gaining a benefit.

    I'd appreciate it if you could be a bit more civil with your responses.

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