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  • sharpq78
    Original poster 3 posts

    First of all - English is not my primary language - sorry for any grammar mistakes.

    Recently I achieved SHD level 1000 in the game, and had more than 1k hours on Xbox - happiness.
    Because of the recent silence in our game, I had time to check other titles available on the market. I’m aware that something new in Division 2 is just around the corner, that’s why I decided to put some words here.

    Balance
    This must be addressed - now on with any possible future update. Is just silly that enemies hit so hard in the game, I checked armour value and there is clearly no difference between having all red build or 4 red and two blue - you just die the same fast… 
    There are two options - turn damage of opponents 10 times (at least) down or increase base of agent armour - 10 times. That’s for the start.

    I know that developers spend so much time balancing with parameters Time To Kill or Time To Be Killed - because of this changes game is so much in the mess that I believe - changing armour value (or damage decrease) is the only option to save this. 

    At the same time - remove all scaling things like hard, challenging or heroic. The most ridiculous decision was to increase difficulty multiplying hit points of the opponent? 
    If we are going to keep difficulty, let’s adjust it in this way - on normal opponent accuracy is 50%, hard is 65%, challenging is 75% etc - the same as AI reaction. Normal - computer is lazy and slow but when we decide to do harder content - computer should get smarter. Hit points should be the same or similar size to agent armour - how often players - full DPS build (all red, full max out gear) shooting enemy all time, enemy turn towards agent - one shot - agent down.

    Next on the list is SHD cap. 
    I see clearly that Massive copied the Diablo 3 paragon system and tried to integrate it into the game. Fine by me but let’s remove the cap and allow players to be over power - with time. Not saying that to be OP in two days but like we have now, took me a bit of time to get to SHD 1k, and now only one reward for me is scavenging?

    Dynamic difficulty is going to solve the problem of getting too much armour or weapon damage. I believe that every player should have an opponent only for himself - if player A has a 10 000 000 armour - opponents have the same value - for him. Player B has 1 000 armour - opponents have 1 000 armour for player B. In this moment we can simplify all difficulties across the whole game and still give players the satisfaction of managing big numbers. 

    About players to be overpower - every player likes to be OP. Especially when playing for thousands of hours. That's a psychological thing. Some game developers are against this and we can observe results - Fallout 76 is a clear example. Elite Dangerous too. When developer's cut too much, players just leave the game.

    Hardcore mode 
    Another implementation from Diablo 3 - again I’m ok with this - good mode but wrong implemented. Allow players to keep loot and progress - like D3 doing. If you die - still going to level yourself up but you have spare stuff in the stash - reason to play this mode. Personally I tried this mode - liked because the beginning of the game is really good in Division 2 - especially before I get to the endgame - but punishment is way too much - restarting all over again. Also game engine is not the best to fully trust game mechanics - today for example I was shot through the wall.

    Conclusion 
    I hear that the massive overhaul coming to Division 2 is going to be another version of Warframe with levelling weapons and armour. With all respect - guys - you don’t have to ‘borrow’ ideas from others - just don’t lose your identity. 
    Small adjustments should put the game in a healthy spot.
    Also - if we keep calling online game - let’s do things like other online games do. Communication on the weekly basis is a minimum… 

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  • Noxious81
    1007 posts
    (...) increase base of agent armour - 10 times. (...)

    (...) computer is lazy and slow (...)

    (...) let’s remove the (SHD Level) cap and allow players to be over power - with time. Not saying that to be OP in two days but like we have now, took me a bit of time to get to SHD 1k, and now only one reward for me is scavenging?


    So you are saying, you want the AI to be less smart, not to say dump... you want to have 10 (!!!) times of the current armor and you want to be able to increase SHD Levels indefinitely?

    Wow, please don't take this personally as there clearly is no offense meant in this, but: from what I can read here, you clearly either do not yet have the experience or skill to tackle the harder difficulties of The Division 2. After all the nerfs difficulty had to go through during the last years, the game currently is rather easy – and it only get's "too hard" if players try to play for example heroic or legendary difficulty, without having sufficient game and gear knowledge for said difficulties. A lot of players get mislead by YouTubers or other content creators who constantly play on heroic difficulty and tell everyone that with this "best build" and that "bestest build" you can also set your open world to heroic difficulty and still steamroll through every activity. This is not true.

    Legendary is the highest difficulty in the game and upon its introduction it originally was meant to be a constant challenge for the top 1% players. Although also this difficulty got nerfed, it nonetheless is by design meant to be pita. And clearly not "for everyone". Punching above one's weight will definitely hurt a lot when playing legendary content. And basically the same is true for heroic content, as this is the highest "regular" difficulty (keeping in mind that legendary difficulty is still only available in three strongholds and The Summit). And without experience, knowledge, practice, and skill the highest difficulty of each and every game will punish you (no matter whether we're talking about Horizon, Dark Souls, Destiny, Warframe, or FIFA).

    (...) About players to be overpower - every player likes to be OP. Especially when playing for thousands of hours. That's a psychological thing.


    II would say that's a glaring misperception. And perhaps this misperception is also why you are under the false assumption your suggestions could be any good. I clearly cannot speak for every player, but most really experienced and skilled players I know, are bored by being overpowered. Most TD2 veterans miss actually challenging content – and a lot of players ask for more difficult content and not more power. I don't know who told you about that "psychological thing" but... they're as wrong as they can be.

    Additionally, as mentioned before legendary content used to be exactly the opposite of "overpowered" in order to keep experienced players busy, entertained, and in the game. That's what the game currently really is lacking. And the good thing for you is: you can always play the game on normal and hard difficulty and have hundreds of hours of fun while completely annihilating every enemy. But there's no need to even further destroy the last little challenges left in the game for all the other players in the game who actually can beat those difficulties.

  • XxMoleRattxX
    3 posts

    Here is alittle bit more constructive criticism...

    Please fix the god damn game crashing every 15mins..... Thanks alot!

  • sharpq78
    Original poster 3 posts

    @noxious81

    Hello,

    Thank you Noxious81 for your response. For your information - I put global difficulty on heroic around 6 months ago and still keep that way - that should solve your problem with me having problems with dealing higher - more HP - difficult content. 

    Looks to me that you unfortunately don’t read my post - when I suggest to increase our armour or decrease damage that computer deal to player (on heroic difficulty) - I also suggest dynamic difficulty where computer scale automatically towards player level. 

    I understand that people want some kind of challenge - in that case I recommend playing a souls type game - that’s for sure. If you call a challenge where you are all red build and you are unable to take an opponent in a few shots but he takes you down almost immediately - well, we have a small problem here. 

    Also like I mentioned - devs try to address this already changing parameters Time To Kill and Time To Be Killed - and this makes a lot of mess. Increasing armour or decreasing damage is the fastest way to fix it. Most of our game is purely based on mathematics - that’s why we have so much mess.

    I mentioned change difficulty by manipulating AI - that’s for the future - when you have a fixed game. Logical step will be difficulty where you can adjust the smartness of the AI to give players a challenge - but not by increasing the HP bar. On this stage when only the health bar is increased, it only creates bullet sponge opponents.

    Off the record - I run on steel patch in Warframe (on my pc account) for long time, even there opponent need a bit of time to take me down...

  • N3mB0t
    983 posts

    black text on a dark background doesnt work for me , cant read .

  • echolecter
    306 posts

    Just accept the game as it is. They won't change anything because, 1st they don't want to, 2nd they can't. Balance within this game is impossible, which can be mathematically proven by doing the math. There is to much stuff that alters any equations they introduce for damage and/or armor between NPC and player.

    Legendary used to be the silly mode for players that like a beating, but most people just want to have fun. Then they tied gear quality to difficulty which resulted in making it (a lot) easier so more players can actually obtain gear with higher stats. Besides all this the AI in the game (and many others) isn't smart at all. Fights take place in very small areas so there is little to no space for alternative tactics.

    If you want to play a game that is 'more realistic' there are plenty of other titles available. But as in real life, fighting solo against a larger group is certain death. And that's also where the fun part stops ...

  • Noxious81
    1007 posts
    (...) I put global difficulty on heroic around 6 months ago and still keep that way - that should solve your problem with me having problems with dealing higher - more HP - difficult content. 


    Quite the opposite is true – if you still haven't gotten a hold to heroic difficulty after having played it for half a year, then it's even more likely that there indeed is still some room for improvement here for you. Especially as there are hundreds, thousands of players who do not have a one of the problems you described when playing heroic difficulty.

    And this is neither a terribly bad thing or something that has to be hid. You just have to be able to admit it to yourself – in order to be able to eventually improve (concerning strategies, builds, awareness, game mechanics etc.). But your Warframe reference indicates that this might also be a long way...

    (...) I understand that people want some kind of challenge - in that case I recommend playing a souls type game - that’s for sure.


    Or, for any other game, choose the highest possible difficulty setting. And if you're not good enough for the highest difficulties – or a souls-like – what do you do? Choose a lower difficulty to learn and improve? Or demand the game to be made easier in order to fit your skill level?

  • ArthurFriend
    95 posts

    What? Seriously? Dude is this the first time ever you play a game like Div2? It's based upon increasingly hard enemies with leveling up your character. And upon creating different builds with different armor or weapon damage values and different roles. So if I decide to play as a tank – all my enemies will be tanks as well? Sorry but that is just plain stupid. And when I want to be a glass canon, all my enemies will also be glass canons oneshotting me? I can't wait for the shitstorm to rain down on Ubi if that should ever become a thing.

    And I'd love to see you great idea of "personal enemies" working out in a co-op session with your player A with 10,000,000 armor and with player B with 1,000 armor. Will they just see completely different enemies? Or are they not allowed to shoot at each other's personal enemies? And will the enemies always focus their personal player and ignore the rest of the team?

    I am sorry, but your ideas just are no good. Do yourself a favor and reflect a bit on your playstyle and builds instead of crying for nerfs for a pretty easy game.

  • DEAN-377
    24 posts

    good opinion, but there is a version can fix it that is TU7. TU7 is the most balance version, but massive thing that was trash and change to TU8 or more accurately gear 2.0. they can easily fix that but they just could not admit they are going on the wrong way on gear 2.0

  • Noxious81
    1007 posts

    Gear 2.0 was one of the best changes for the game. Prior WoNY I too was pretty skeptical, but Gear 2.0 allowed for a build diversity we never had in this game before. The vast majority of all Gear and Brand Sets are at a pretty good spot right now and only a few items or sets are either below par or are overpowered (the latter mainly because of the expected end of lifecycle).

  • DEAN-377
    24 posts

    @noxious81 disagree, gear 2.0 were the worst change, before that we can have 3 talent on weapon, 3 on chest & backpack & exotic, now weapon only have 1 talent, backpack& chest have talent, how dare you say gear 2.0 was good change unless you could not figure gear 1.0.

  • III_Hammer_III
    112 posts

    Maybe something was lost in the translation...

    Contrary to popular belief, not every game is based on Diablo.
    If you want to cut through enemies like they are butter and you are a hot knife, just play in normal. The whole point of legendary is that it should be legendarily difficult; if it is too difficult for you, then stay on the lower difficulty.

  • III_Hammer_III
    112 posts

    @echolecter
    You can't say you can prove mathematically that the game is impossible to balance since balance is in the eye of the beholder. What is your definition of "balance"? I had discussions about PvP on another game's forum, and people seemed to think "balance" was achieved when they could with 75% of the fights.

    As for the AI - I hate that term for games, not such thing in games - being "dumb", it isn't. What other tactics do you want to see?

  • Noxious81
    1007 posts
    (...) disagree, gear 2.0 were the worst change, before that we can have 3 talent on weapon, 3 on chest & backpack & exotic, now weapon only have 1 talent, backpack& chest have talent, how dare you say gear 2.0 was good change unless you could not figure gear 1.0.


    You ask me what I "dare" to say? Excuse me, but as long as I voice my opinion in a civil and constructive way, you may want to watch your words a bit better.

    Concerning Gear 2.0:
    Generally, more options do not always result in a better build diversity. Pure DPS builds were predominant before Gear 2.0, thus hindering one of the main features of the TD series coming to full bloom: theory crafting, build creation, playing around with different sets and roles. This can be seen pretty good when looking at how Dark Hours was designed – as a DPS check. This kind of raid per design catered to the (back then) prevalent build, the damage dealer. There was no need and no room for a CC, a healer, a tank, a hybrid.

    Also, keep in mind that for example weapons did have three talents (one holstered talent), yes, but only one main damage stat. Nowadays weapons come with three different attributes and one talent. And since basically every second talent before Gear 2.0 was a passive one like ammo capacity or RoF, we do have pretty much the same now with the third attribute. So there's not even a real "downsizing" here...

    The same is true for a lot of talents on gear items: we used to not have a main attribute on our gear. No 15% Weapon Damage. No 170k Armor. No 1 Skill Tier. This was "hidden" in talents like Devastating (+5% Weapon Damage) or Empowered (+10% Skill Power) or Hardened (+10% Armor). So with Gear 2.0 the basically converted redundant passive talents into main attributes. This was a pretty great move imho of consolidating passive bonuses and at the same time making the "real" talents (the active ones, the ones that define playstyles) stand out more.

    And finally – the underlying "pie system" for determining how good the rolls of the minor attributes used to be was a complete failure. It was too complicated and it didn't allow for min-maxing gear or properly telling apart good and not so good gear. Gear 2.0 was a step back towards how gear in TD1 worked. And that also was a smart move. It made theory crafting, farming, comparing and using gear and also optimizing builds much easier.

    So in case you reeeeeally want to properly compare Gear 1.0 and Gear 2.0, you definitely need to bring more aspects to the table than just the number of talents...

  • DEAN-377
    24 posts

    @noxious81 hahaha, you just show how you do not know gear 1.0, as you said,  Pure DPS builds were predominant, but that is the whole point, kill enemy asps is the whole point, you like BB gun and paper armor, plz do not reply that mean you were not that smart(that is right  I voice my opinion in a civil and constructive way).

  • echolecter
    306 posts

    @iii_hammer_iii Yes I can. If you knew how many possible combinations there are that players can construct with all the weapons, gear and mods you wouldn't say you can't prove it. If I got 0.0001% of it in cash I'd solve all the poverty issues in this world over night and make every one a millionaire. But maybe there are some genius masterminds at work at Massive that think they can solve this riddle.

    Many players want build diversity without one or two being overpowered or at the other end of the spectrum, completely useless. That is where this balance comes into play. They can't make all builds perform equally as good, simply impossible. So using a good build can make it feel like the game is to easy, using a lesser one makes it feel to hard for some.

    And since you mentioned PvP, those players complain the most about it. But they fail to see where the real problem lies.

  • xcel30
    832 posts

    @dean-377 Nope, people were using high armor skill talents with talents to compensate the DPS loss of not having that many red stats, people could be tank/healer/DPS all in one for PVP pretty easily. I did like some of old talents and gear, specially the old gunslinger holster exotic, but most exotic weapons were not great and needed a rework because they were being used as glorified backpack items for their talents instead of weapons most of the time.

    There was also the issue that an item max roll was limited by the amount of stats it had making so certain brands could only have one stat, others could have three but they would be all forcibly be bad due "power distribution". Making builds were a mess and not fun, 2.0 honestly fixed that for me

  • DEAN-377
    24 posts

    @xcel30 agree, in my opinion, we can mix good thing between gear 1.0 and 2.0, all part talents come back would be first.

  • III_Hammer_III
    112 posts

    @echolecter
    ... and as I said, balance is in the eye of the beholder. By your statements, looks like you think balance means all builds perform the same in any and all circumstances. That's not "balance".

  • xcel30
    832 posts

    @dean-377 It's a bit of mixed bags, i didn't like the requirements for talents a lot of the time as it goes against building whatever weird combo you can BUT at the same time if all talents are free they need to make a way better job in making them all more useful in some way or another because well... reassigned exists and it's just a joke talent, maybe make so masks or another piece of gear could have those smaller talents or even let you pick a few related to your specialization for free is what i would do, small nudges in power

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