ubisoft discussions

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  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1509 posts
    @LateNiteDelight We have the same desire, I've just been more forgiving because I believe the PS4/XBOne are a bigger impediment to the AI than you and others [based on Ubi forcing them to use up threads for more polygons and the drones].

    Well, I hear you and defend your position but I am just going to have to beg to differ.

    I mean, this is a AAA Multi Billion Company and not an Indie Studio. This is like if BMW would launch their new M12 sedan but with a LADA engine and insult their customers by asking them to pay full price for it because, well, some of the customers have broken an arm and can't utilize all the power than BMW V12 engine can offer because one would need 2 hands to drive it correctly... or something that someone here with more brains than me can put a good example together.

    😁

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @fcac-no-moe I don't know if you are just really bad at analogies, or don't really understand what I'm talking about 😂

    Ubi Paris is like a car designer. Ubi Editorial comes to them and says: We liked that Sedan you built, it was popular [Wildlands] - but we need you to take the same parts and make a prettier car. Also, you have to add an extra 1000 lbs of fancy tech gizmos. Oh, and you to need to take a quarter of your budget, and design a race course for them to use, that only works when 4 cars are near each other. You also need to use the same engine, suspension and tires. And don't forget, it needs to get equal or better performance.

    CPU threads are a finite resource. Building a game is about deciding which parts get priority access to said resources. If you give more resources to one item, you must compensate by taking resources away from another.

    For simplicity, let's say the PS4/XBOne CPU can handle 100 units of work [all numbers and ratios made up].

    In Wildlands:

    • Graphics used 30 units
    • Map used 20 units
    • NPCs used 15 units
    • Teammates used 15 units
    • Enemies used 20 units.


    The Editorial Board came to them and said, we want Graphics at 40 units for this next game, the map up to 25, and add Drones which will use 15 units.

    So the team sat down and had to figure out where to get those units from. Drones seemed easy, let's just swap them for teammates - Lone Survivor story, boom. But they still needed to chop 15 more units - so they took those from the NPCs [less populated/living world] and the Enemies [sorry Unidad system]. It's also why the AI Teammates we do have are so basic.

    The next gen systems, on the other hand, have 400 units. Hence, why I'm hoping to see some of those extra units put toward AI. Granted, will believe it when I see it - I trust Ubi as far as I can throw their HQ.

  • Mars388502
    Original poster 237 posts

    @latenitedelight this is an interesting bit of informations. I have a really basic understanding on how games are made, and this few lines improved my understanding of it, so thank you for that.

  • AgentMikel
    243 posts
    GRBP is dead

    Was it even alive!?

  • Mars388502
    Original poster 237 posts

    While on the subject of AI. I ran into this video, made by one of the posters around here:



    Sincerely, I don't know if we should either laugh or cry...

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @mars388502 I don't actually design games, but that was how someone from Vicarious Visions explained it to me. Granted, he could have been really dumbing it down for me, or I missed some of his nuance - but that was my take away.

    Designing AI is also quite complex, so for all we know, Anvil/Ubi Paris could also be really inefficient with their AI coding/design. Maybe they need 20 units to make bland AI, but another engine/studio can do the same with 10 units, so if they give 20 it's twice as good.

    But I don't know anyone with any insider info on UbiParis - so it's all just guessing. I'd just rather guess about this than work on policy updates and other work reporting 🤤

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1509 posts

    @latenitedelight

    Well, perhaps a little bit of both? which is not to say that while your explanation is Awesome and very cultural and helpful even, to me is worth nothing of value at the end of the day?

    To me is simple, the game is from a Franchised called Ghost Recon, this franchise grew exponentially why? because it was based on a Military squad base shooter in the Shooter Genre so... priority #1 should be what? shooting gameplay and gunplay. I play it on PC with KB + M, I should take the same priority to appease just like Console players do.

    The rest if BS and furthermore, I am sure that if they want they could get more out of it but because it is good enough for government work (so to speak) is ok for them to sell it at full price? If the blame is on the console hardware then why not make the game for the best high end PC and then dumb or water down it to make it workable for the lower end PC and also consoles? I am sorry but just because the ratio is 10 to 1 (as an example) it doesn't mean I have to pay full price for half a churn game.

    Well, again, in my distorted view of how a game should be made, otherwise, why bother creating games for PC? what you are saying is that I have to and need to wait for the Next Gen console hardware to arrive before I can have a decent and proper GR game? by that time, the PC will be 20% to 40% ahead of it so to me and most PC players it will be rinse and repeat.

    I was only able to watch 1 minute or so of that video cause the guy is too much in a hurry to speak and I couldn't keep up but, was he really waiting for a different response? Clearly the game was made to have ZERO teammates and clearly they didn't want to take the time nor make the effort to change most of the core of the game so yeah, they behave as intended, they didn't lie about it... they just omitted that the game wasn't supposed to have teammates.




  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @fcac-no-moe having our games held back by consoles is our burden in life 😖

    It's why I'm seriously considering Arma 3 now .. though I'll probably wait for a sale 😀

  • Megalodon-26
    362 posts

    @latenitedelight The new consoles are just as powerful as most gaming PC's on the market, uless your'e paying several thousand dollars.

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1509 posts

    @latenitedelight

    One of the things that kicks me in the danglies is the fact that, just like Ground Branch utilizes almost all 103 key buttons in the keyboard, ARMA does so as well. Of course I am exaggerating but they do use waaaay too many buttons for my taste.

    Now, does it mean that I have to use them all? well, no I don't but then, they do offer something to give me the edge and if I don't then I am not utilizing all that I can and that is what kicks me. The other side is that I can only remember to use the amount of buttons I know use, which by the way, is a lot LOL.

    But, yes, the bottom line is that I grow tired and older to wait for Ubi and the Paris Studio to take their heads out of their collective butts and come out with the proper GR experience game so I may have to give Arma III a look see.

    So, it does look like it has a Single Player Campaign.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @bigrexxx that's why I'm on team hopeful for Next Gen games 😁

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1509 posts
    @bigrexxx The new consoles are just as powerful as most gaming PC's on the market, uless your'e paying several thousand dollars.


    Again, I believe you believe what you are saying but, I seriously have reservations that a STD GTX3060 is as powerful as the onboard chip on the XBox One X, Y or Z (I really don't know anything about console models) and that is just the beginning of my doubts.

    Also you want me to believe that the Intel i7-11700F is just as powerful as the CPU onboard the PS5 or Xbox?

    I may not know much about PC hardware but something tells me this just is isn't so. Oh and, I am not even giving you the high end stuff but more so the medium-medium

    If that is the case, I am just going to have to sell my rig and get onboard with a new Xbox One ??? get a KB+M emulator and start rocking and rolling


  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @fcac-no-moe New consoles are on paper, a 2080Super/3060ti-3070/6800 in terms of GPU. CPU is in the ballpark of an i9-9900/Ryzen3700x.

    Granted, by the time Next Gen Only games drop, that will be around a 4060/7700 most likely. Which is about normal, the consoles usually perform like a PC that can hit benchmark fps on Medium settings at peak once they drop the old console. CPU wise, consoles get a boost from less overhead, but you're still better off with a i5-12600k or 5800x [and we should have Raptor Lake & Zen 4]. Though the price of PC latest and greatest is much higher..

    A better PC really just lets you crank up the pretty and/or FPS when you get a game that also drops on console - which is also what you are currently seeing as the difference between the two console generations.

  • Kean_1
    209 posts

    @fcac-no-moe

    We are also seeing more and more developers looking to port their PC games to next gen consoles. Team 17's Hell Let Loose is a recent example. Next gen has really helped opened the door to more PC games either being adopted to console or being developed alongside PC. .....and they aren't necessarily having to be "dumbed down".

    I think the point here is that next gen has really helped bridge the gap between PC and console. You'll always be able to build a more capable PC but consoles are at least in the same ballpark allowing for more possibilities.

    I used to be a PC gamer building my own rigs. .....then I jumped ship and bought a PS3. I now have a PS5 and it was a significant jump from the PS4 IME. If it wasn't for the shortage, I would imagine we would have more next-gen exclusive titles by now.

    My main hope on the tactical shooter front is with the PC devs who have either already ported titles to the PS5, have plans to or are currently developing games with the intention of including console. It's these titles that I feel are the best hope to change the direction of old franchises like GR and make these AAA devs realize what they have always had right in front of them all along.

  • Megalodon-26
    362 posts

    @fcac-no-moe The people that do know about PC hardware, have compared the specs of the custom components used in the Series X (which is different that the One X) and have said what PC components they are comparable to. So I looked up a gaming PC on Newegg, with those components, and what it's currently selling for, compared to the Series X.

    PC = $2400.00
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6GHz (4.4GHz Boost), 8-Core 16-Thread
    RTX 3070 GPU
    16GB DDR4 3200MHz
    1TB M.2 NVMe SSD

    Xbox Series X = $700.00
    Custom CPU: 8x Zen 2 Cores, 16 threads, at 3.8GHz
    Custom GPU: 12 TFLOPs, 52 CUs at 1.825GHz, Custom RDNA 2
    16GB GDDR6
    1TB Custom NVMe SSD.

    So while they may not be the absolute top of the line components, they are close enough to it, to say that the consoles are no longer less powerful than PC's, as a general rule.

  • FcAc-No-Moe
    1509 posts

    I don't know about those prices, my son bought last year around May, when GPUs were super scarce (and super expensive!!!), an Asus ROG Mobo + 16GBs Ram + i7-11900F + Asus GTX 3070 + 1TB SSd + 1.5TB HDD for about 1500 and I have heard that prices are even lower now. It is also extremely hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that a small onboard chip is equally powerful as those Massive GPUs that we use in the PCs.

    I gotta ask though, what miracle device does the consoles use to dissipate the heat that both CPU & GPU create? I know that my Rig is nothing but a Medium to a Medium low (the one above sans the 3070 because he kept it and I have a lowly 1070ti... my XFX 3 fan RX6700XT doesn't fit on the case, UGH!) and I have to crank up the fans when I am doing a long sessions Co-Op or solo. Oh and the 1070ti has 2 fans of its own.

    Look, at the end of the day, if the consoles are on par with the PCs, I for one will be all giggles about it because it means that we will all be on equal footing. Well, there is still the issue of button shortages in the console controllers that KB+M doesn't have but I am hoping that innovation and technology will help advance that as well, because this would mean no more stupid wheel with 3 to 4 commands only, although, something tells me that the lack of commands is due to something totally different but let's blame the controllers for now LOL.

    All I want is a mature and grounded proper GR game and if this helps so be it, I have nothing against consoles to be honest except that they were hindering the progress of a good Shooter, or so I thought initially.



  • Megalodon-26
    362 posts

    @fcac-no-moe Here's the link if you want to confirm the price.

    https://www.newegg.ca/abs-ala226/p/N82E16883360060?Description=ryzen%207&cm_re=ryzen_7-_-83-360-060-_-Product: (https://newegg.ca/abs-ala226/p/N82E16883360060?Description=ryzen%207&cm_re=ryzen_7-_-83-360-060-_-Product)

    It's in Canada, so prices are probably somewhat inflated compared to the US, but you can get the Series X from Best Buy, for $600 Canadian before taxes, when in stock.

  • BrotherO4
    8 posts

    @bigrexxx UBI change their whole organization? hmmm NFTs, Ghost recon into Battlegrounds, cancelling games, still releasing their Free to play games, AC is still an rpg, Far cry still uses the same game design that every UBI game uses, and more.

    the only change is that they goanna try to push NFTs now which is not improvement but an worst outcome than ever before.

  • Megalodon-26
    362 posts

    @brothero4 They changed it so that one executive would not be in charge of multiple franchises, like Ghost Recon and The Division, at the same time. So that elements from one wouldn't bleed into the other, because the same person was making decisions for both. That's how drones came to play such huge roles in Breakpoint, WD Legion, and The Division 2. Now each IP, will hopefully be able to differentiate themselves from the other Ubi titles. Unfortunately this move was only made around 2 years ago, so we haven't seen how it will affect the franchises going forward yet. Even Frontlines was probably already in early development, by the time this reorganization happened. And a lot of the things you complained about are either decisions made at the very top of the company, or have absolutely nothing to do with the people now in charge of Ghost Recon. So if you take issue with how other Ubi games are designed, or what engine those devs decide to use, feel free to comment on their forums.

  • Killorio
    196 posts
    I was only able to watch 1 minute or so of that video cause the guy is too much in a hurry to speak and I couldn't keep up but, was he really waiting for a different response? Clearly the game was made to have ZERO teammates and clearly they didn't want to take the time nor make the effort to change most of the core of the game so yeah, they behave as intended, they didn't lie about it... they just omitted that the game wasn't supposed to have teammates.

    @FcAc-No-Moe As for the video, you should just have put the video on 0.75 speed to listen it properly, heh.
    As for the "this is working as intended" quote from Ubisoft Support person, that's a fine way of being cynical, that is, for Ubisoft, AI running as crap is still "working as intended". But I know better: Ubisoft has terrible standards for Quality Control; being "acceptable enough" is what the company sets for, where, mind you, "acceptable" is "decent" at best and "mediocre" at worst. Ghost Recon Breakpoint is just another Ubisoft game plagued with this "paradigm": The Division 2 still has DX12 crashes even after over 1 year, Assassin's Creed Valhalla still crashes once in a while (I had 3 River Raid runs ruined by bugs, aff) and some persistent basic bugs, especially at stealth (the worst of the franchise), Watch Dogs Legion was abandoned and still runs bad in so many ways, older games then...
    Ubisoft just doesn't care enough about releasing polished games.

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