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  • AsDamageAsMe
    Original poster 2 posts

    Hey Guys,

    this TU is so focused on Pulse Builds but there is no chance to make a 100% Anti Pulse Build in PVP. Why you dont change the Uzina Brand Set into this:

    1 piece = 10% Pulse Resistance
    2 pieces = 5% Total Armor
    3 pieces = 10% Hazard Protection

    I think the 2 pieces Armor on Kill are so useless, and with the add 10% Pulse Resistance there is a real chance to make an Anti Pulse Build in PVP! Because i think the new Gear Set would be the new Meta in PVP but there is no chance to beat them. If you are not interested in a 100% Pulse Resistance you have think about an cooldown for the Laser Pointer mod from the Technican to have a real chance with an anti pulse build.

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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • RockyRamzy
    40 posts

    @irumpelstiel there is a chance to make a puls resistance build, check out my video.

  • Imagine_Brata
    970 posts

    armor on kill is better for pve

  • RockyRamzy
    40 posts

    @imagine_brata yes but we got it already.
    This Bonuses should be on Gila Guard idk why Massive is throwing more gear into the huge loot pool and then also a brand set where the bonuses already exist.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @irumpelstiel The suggestion to give Uzina 10% Pulse Resistance has been made in many, many threads.

    I also do not understand why the first is the same as Gila - they've never overlapped on the first bonus like that.

    However, I would vote:
    (1) 10% Pulse Resistance
    (2) 10% HzP
    (3) 10% Explosive Resistance

  • RockyRamzy
    40 posts

    @latenitedelight that would be awsome and something worth playing 3 pieces of a brand.
    Thats what i´m talking about in my Brand and Gear Set poste.

  • Im_Pine
    225 posts

    @latenitedelight they've actually been quite careful not to overlap bonuses at all, mostly in Brand Sets.

    There are some notable exceptions like Hana-U and Empress.

    In regards to your rework, I have issues with it because you're following the same design philosophy for brands currently in the game, which isn't always ideal. For example: that 3rd Bonus is one of the things we've always complained about: it's not strong enough to warrant the third piece.

    The second bonus also competes with Ceska, and Considering that Ceska 1p Gives CHC, why would I wanna use this instead?

    I'd wager your idea needs to be stronger:

    1p 10% Pulse Res
    2p 20% HZP
    3p 30% Explo Res

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @im_pine I don't see why you break the mold by offering a bonus higher than another brand.

    As for Ceska, what if someone isn't building into Crit? That Pulse Resistance is the carrot, as now pulse builds are going to pop off. And I can see more people moving over to HeadShot/WH and away from Crit, especially if Heartbreaker takes root.

    So you've got (3) Yaahl + Uzina as the base for Pulse Resistance. Why do you go (2)Ceska to get that extra HzP, instead of an additional Uzina + Weapon Brand? or even (3)Yaahl + (3)Uzina to counter all the things people cry about in PvP balancing threads?

    I also think people sleep on how helpful Explosive Resistance can be.

  • Im_Pine
    225 posts

    @latenitedelight

    I don't see why you break the mold by offering a bonus higher than another brand.


    Because the mold is flawed. The design of brands is incorrect and I don't like following flawed design.

    As for Ceska, what if someone isn't building into Crit?


    Crit will continue to be king in PvP and PvE. This will never change.

    That Pulse Resistance is the carrot, as now pulse builds are going to pop off. And I can see more people moving over to HeadShot/WH and away from Crit, especially if Heartbreaker takes root.


    Absolutely, Pulse Resistance is going to be very valuable, but Crits will still permeate every aspect of the game

    So you've got (3) Yaahl + Uzina as the base for Pulse Resistance. Why do you go (2)Ceska to get that extra HzP, instead of an additional Uzina + Weapon Brand?


    For the added CHC Value. Let's be real here, 10% HZP or 20% HZP makes no difference here, unless you're trying to build a HZP set proper.

    or even (3)Yaahl + (3)Uzina to counter all the things people cry about in PvP balancing threads?


    Quick fact: presently, you can't be Immune to Explosions. You can cut a lot of damage but not be Immune. This would help you get a properly Explosive Resistant Build.

    Another quick fact: in the hypothetical build, while you'd be Pulse Immune, if you want to be HZP Immune and Explosive Immune as well, you'd need 6 HZP Rolls and 6 Explosive Resistance Rolls, which would translate to your build having virtually no damaging attributes and losing the ability to allocate named items with unique rolls. That all sounds extremely well balanced to me, because then a Weapon Damage Build would easily destroy you.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @im_pine I'm confused now. Is Headshot important or not important to PvP play? Because I keep hearing it's the difference between skilled and unskilled players, yet now Crit is all the matters? If you are skilled, you could instadelete everyone with just a minor focus on HS.

    This is a game built around counters ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Im_Pine
    225 posts

    @latenitedelight good way to dodge my arguments.

     I'm confused now. Is Headshot important or not important to PvP play? Because I keep hearing it's the difference between skilled and unskilled players


    Hearing from whom? I haven't exercised any form of elitism in PvP Builds in any of my comments, let alone said anything about Headshots. Don't put other people's words in my mouth, you're talking to me and my arguments, or so I'd wish to think, not others'.

    If you are skilled, you could instadelete everyone with just a minor focus on HS.


    No you can't. Not with a "minor" focus on HSD. Besides, in my comment about build versatility and counters I said this:

    you'd need 6 HZP Rolls and 6 Explosive Resistance Rolls, which would translate to your build having virtually no damaging attributes


    Damaging attributes. Read that again: damaging attributes. This means, that in order to achieve that level of utility and defense, you'd be incurring in a great sacrifice that would leave you vulnerable to a weapon focused build and that is absolutely fine.

    This is a game built around counters


    Yes. That was the entire point of my post. Thanks for agreeing.

    It's kinda cute how I spread my build focus on many possible scenarios, only for you to retort with a petty quasi personal attack focused on a single aspect of my comment.

    I'm off, your lack of intellectual honesty is actually embarrassing and off putting for intelligent conversation and debate.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @im_pine Maybe it's because I'm sick, but I'm confused by your reaction

    I was simply referring to all the PvP focused posts in the PTS in general, not you. You can chill, I've enjoyed your posts here, no need to get so prickly. With the coming shield nerf, there has been a concerted voice saying it's necessary for the car door to remain as is, because it separates the skilled from the unskilled - in some, specifically calling out the high crit of the unskilled, vs the headshot abilities of the skilled. Also, I can't be bothered to post as you do, I'm mostly on mobile. Inlaying quotes is too much of a pain in the [censored].

    Also, you're wrong about Headshot. Punch Drunk and 5 attributes is enough to crush HS. That frees up 6 Attribute Slots, and multiple Brand Bonus for reallocation.

    Anyway, you seem to realize the game is about counters, except you seem to not want to give up damage to gain protection - or at least, as currently balanced by Massive, you don't find the juice worth the squeeze. So I'm not sure if you really do or if you just disagree on the scaling or something else. Go flat out damage, but be susceptible to everything. Don't want to be susceptible to everything? Whelp, gonna have to hand in some of that damage to offset. Counters, tradeoffs - this is how Massive approaches balance.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @im_pine So I went down to my pc to read your post again, and I guess I'm left with questions.

    Crit:
    Crit is so ever-present because it's easy, but also, Console. Landing HS is not easy, so most people shy away from it. Just because a bunch of people only use target dated funds, doesn't mean it's the most optimal investing strategy for everyone - and the same concept applies here. This doesn't even delve into the many misunderstandings people have as to how damage is calculated.

    For instance, looking simply at the Crit Damage vs Headshot damage numbers, is instantly overlooking something people don't consider - which is the inherent HS multiplier of various gun categories. Then, and I emphasize I'm not saying @Im_Pine , there are the folks that don't even realize you need to multiply CHC by CD to get the smoothed weapon damage boost - as there are folks in this forum saying HS needs to be buffed because the CD numbers are higher, so why is Massive favoring Crit so much. This also belies the fact that it's Chance, where as Headshot either is, or is not. So while you might have CHC at 60%, you could actually get a bad streak where one mag hits for less than 60% Crits [or a good streak, where it's higher] - it's just overtime, in a large sample, it evens out to 60% [this is even worse when trying to discuss RNG with people who don't understand statistics].

    So right there, we have a good example of a trade-off. Crit roughs out to 7.2%WD to Headshots 10% WD, because it also works on the body while also taking more attribute/brand slots to ramp up. Now, I'm happy to debate if that is an appropriate ratio given the state of the game, or if the amount of HS vs the amount of CD one can reach have appropriate limits. I'm also happy to discuss how egregious it is that HS damage doesn't get applied to Helmets in some way.

    Brand Bonus:
    You are not the first person to recently bring up the Brand Bonuses as being broken, but there is a distinct lack of examples or rationale behind such statements as best I can tell. I literally have the grid I made up post-2.0 next to this as I type, and I guess I'm not getting the beef. So I'm left to guess, and this is my guess: People don't think it's worth giving up the Damage Output for the levels of Protection they can gain from the Defensive Attributes. Is that where you fall? Because your statements and offhanded % numbers you tossed out certainly allude to your presence in that bucket.

    So feel free to correct me, and guide the conversation. Now we know there are issues with some protections never officially becoming fully mitigated, and we also know some don't require 100% to be completely effective. What should the Brand Bonuses be adjust to? Where to? Why?

    The Hypothetical Build:
    So this brings up an interesting question, that used to pop up a lot - what's the value of a niche build vs an all around build? I used to have fun back and forth with a former regular who felt all builds should be well rounded. I like to explore the extremes and the niches. You sound an awful lot like him, in that once he hit the primary goal of the build, everything defaulted back to baseline - in this case, take the damage. But if you're looking at marginal utility, what really is the difference of 10%CHC in a low damage build already? What could be gained by making a build that accepts it's damage is low, but can survive damn near anything?

    For example, our Uzina Anti-Pulse build. Let's walk through the particulars. Now, in reality, since we can never be immune to Explosives, the optimal aim should be somewhere north of 35% [that's the tipping point]. So Yaahl is giving us 10%HzP, 5%WD and 40% Pulse Resistance. We get 50% Pulse Resistance from our Spec, so the Uzina hits us to 100%. Now the watch gives us 10%HzP too, so we're behind eightball here, as we want to find at least 80%, if not more. Let's assume we are running an AR? not sure there.

    So we've got two slots left. We're at 100% Pulse Resistance, and 20% HzP. Our goal is to get to at least 40% Explosive Resistance, add another 70% HzP, and then look at Damage. What do we do?

    Ceska: So now we've gotten to 30% HzP, and moved ourselves up 10%CHC. We need to give 4 attributes to Explosive Resistance, and 6 to HzP. This leaves us with two free attribute slots, weapon mod slots, and three gear mod slots. Since we've committed to Crit, let's optimize there. You get more CHC than CD from weapon mods, so go CHC there - we're up to 35%CHC. We've got 35%CD from Watch/Game, so let's use the two slots on CD, bumping us to 59%. Now the question - do you go for immunity to three things or squeeze out an extra 13%WD with CD? That 13%WD takes what, .09s off your TTK, versus being immune to three status effects?

    Uzina: So instead of 10%CHC, we've got 10% Explosive resistance. So we've freed up an additional attribute slot, but we're doing less damage. Now 35%CHC and 59% CD, gives us about 21% more WD. Except, we've got three free attribute slots, plus three weapon mod slots. Those three Attribute slots, as HS - 30% WD on HS. I'd honestly go WH focused mods on the gun. [Actually, what I would do is drop the 3rd for Fenris with Explosive Resistance & Headshot, and I'm without a doubt ahead of the Ceska build.]

    It's really not all that different - if you hit headshots. Now you could tweak that Ceska build to run an SMG, giving more value to your CD. You could also tweak the Uzina to run with some other weapon or my prior mentioned Fenris swap. There are many little things you could do to personalize your build - but the answer isn't clearly just go Ceska with it's CHC. There is far more nuance in this games systems than that. Just because other people don't explore it, or espouse it, or understand it - doesn't mean it's not there.



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