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  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    Band Set and their Bonuses

    So you guys at Massive a revamping the specialization why not immediately take a look at all Brand Sets & their Bonuses and also the Gear Sets & their Talents?
    We have a lot of Brand Sets that nobody really uses in a 3 piece combination and here is why:

    We have many brands that already give us the BEST VALUE in the first bonus and that makes many brand sets useless!
    When putting together a set, the third bonus should always be the best and most lucrative VALUE, so that it makes sense to play this brand in a combination of three pieces.

    I'm not going to list all the brand sets and explain to you why not, why not, etc. you can do the work yourself because that's what you get paid for 🙂

    Gear Sets

    With the gear sets, these only have 1 attribute but a very special bonus if you play four pieces of a gear set. So far so good, but:

    Among other things, you have a few gear sets that absolutely cannot keep up with the others.
    As an example: The Patriot or, for example, the tip of the spear.

    Now one or the other will say: These can't keep up? [censored] your talking about?

    You have to look at it as a whole just like with the brand sets, it should always be possible to create your own playstyle (like it was back in The Division 1) and not be limited to the motto: If I don't play it one way or the other, I absolutely have no chance because the other things are 10x stronger etc.

    One or the other being stronger than the other is totally normal, having a meta is totally normal too.
    But there must always be an opportunity to oppose it.

    Example:
    It can't be that I have to play my complete set because of skills on hazard protection.
    Or do I have to go full DPS just because they have an OP healer on their team.
    There must always be a middle way, something called balance.


    Conclusion

    We have many other problems in this game like talents or dead talents not being used because they don't make any sense or are absolutely too weak.
    Too high scaled gear mods weapons mods resitance mods etc. the list goes on and on.

    The new brand set with bonuses that we already have clearly shows that there is no longer any creativity, it also shows that there is no interest in revising other brand sets.

    These were only rough examples, the experienced players know exactly what is meant here.

    Unfortunately I haven't seen any progress since the release, a hole is being plugged and two more are being opened, a vicious circle.
    New things are always being implemented without first editing the other things or fixing errors.
    No wonder the developers have absolutely no overview.
    Keep adding new things to the heap until you can no longer see the older things and then the great search begins without hope.

    This feedback ends up in your spam folder. I am aware of this, but I still wanted to mention the topic of brand and gear sets again.

    And this issue is a minimal problem of hiss others who are far worse.

    Thanks very much

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  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    Not sure what you're on about with TP & TipS. I use TipS as a skill build, as well as a fun Sniper build [for Golden Bullet, with the Tac-50]. TP is a great tanky support build for folks that don't want to use an MMR/Shotgun with Opportunist - but can also be a funky hybrid with some core swaps [that extra mag capacity makes LD not useless]. Though I'd love to see a new version of the Ninja Bike Messenger Bag, as it would be fun to pair the 3 piece bonus of one Gearset to the 4 piece bonus of another.

    As for the Spec Revamp, and underutilized talents. We've been mentioning that in the forum for a long, long time. I even wrote a giant post about moving underutilized talents into the Spec Trees, as well as bringing back some of the old passive talents. It's why I'm sad the spec revamp was delayed, as I wanted to see if they did some of that.

    Not sure how I feel about your Brand Set rework. On the one hand, I kind of like it, as it rewards specialization further. On the other hand, it messes with some of my preferred builds in a way I don't appreciate 😶

    spoiler

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @latenitedelight tip of the spear was just an example.

    What i wanted to say is, that a lot of brand set bonuses are not worth playing, also a lot of brand sets you will never see sombody use it in a 3 piece combination what actually is sad.
    Another point what i´m saying is, that the third bonus should always be the best in slot of a brand set.

    I played them all, they perform well and some just okay, but here you have to see the whole picture and when you make the comparison many sets are undervalued and others way too dominant, it would be good if it could be leveled a bit.

    That one is better than the other is normal, but you should have an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time, many things only have advantages and no disadvantages and that is not optimal.

    We have brand sets which reward you directly in the first bonus with the best value and I think that misses the point of a brand set that is actually designed to play in a 3-bonus or in a 2-bonus.
    You know the current builds and usually only 1 piece is equipped by a brand, I think that breaks the concept.
    I hope you understand what I mean now.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @rockyramzy I said I did, especially if you see my last paragraph 😊

    Things that really stand out to me are 5.11 and Ongoing Directive. Most of the brands I can make an argument for, and give you a good build/use - but 5.11 just sucks - because Health was over nerfed after Berserk/Clutch was a longtime Meta [maybe the Watch too]. OD sucks because bleed got nerfed.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @latenitedelight

    Okay.

    No you don´t need to Bro i tried all of them, there are lot of brands that are without any sense.
    Especially the 3 bonus as an example cheska > health or Aralda Holdings 5% DMG to armor.
    Those were just 2 examples of many.

    As I said before you have to look at the whole picture and also both sides of PVE and PVP.

  • A Former User
    0 posts
    What i wanted to say is, that a lot of brand set bonuses are not worth playing, also a lot of brand sets you will never see sombody use it in a 3 piece combination what actually is sad.
    Another point what i´m saying is, that the third bonus should always be the best in slot of a brand set.

    I'm not so sure that's a good idea. Right now, the gear system allows us to farm individual pieces without worrying much about dependencies. Your idea would make people feel they have to farm three pieces of the same brand, all with the "correct" attributes and talents. That would make the effects of RNG feel worse than it is already.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @suschunga

    I like to repeat myself again 🙂

    Brand Set with the option to combine 3 pieces of it is the principle, but if I already get the best value in the first bonus, this principle doesn't matter much anymore.
    That's what I mean.

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    @rockyramzy I am now even more confused about what your proposal is. Provide a before/after example.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @suschunga it seams that you have no idea about the brand set system?

    Can you tell me what the 3 piece brand set system is about?
    What is the goal of it?
    Why are there 3 bonuses?

    Any idea?

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @rockyramzy Damage to Armor makes a lot of sense for an MMR build, because your biggest pain point will be Elites, that wear a bunch of armor. This give you a better chance to one tap them on higher difficulty, especially since Dt is multiplicative.

    Health is a junk stat, it's a waste for any brand, regardless of slot. I don't think anyone will argue with you there. It's why I keep asking for them to rework health.

    Any more examples? Seriously, I love theorycrafting and I'm home sick today.

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    @rockyramzy you're not going to get any support for an idea if you can't explain it clearly, and support it with a rationale.

    To answer your question, each brand is designed around a particular play style, and in theory has a set of bonuses that support that. Whether specific brands achieve that goal is a different question.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @suschunga as it is currently, in 95% of the cases no 3-part bonus is needed, so you undermine the brand sets' own game system. But that falls on deaf ears.
    Seriously, if you get the best bonus in the first piece, then brand sets with 3 bonuses don't really make sense.

    A reconsideration would do the game good.
    But we can discuss as much as we want, little or nothing will change.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @latenitedelight bro no because dosen´t make sense.

    I could list you a lot of examples why this bonus and this bonus absoloutly makes no sense to play in 2 or 3 piece bonus, we would talk all day long and at the end nothing will happen.
    I´m out for today. I will awnser agin tomorrow.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @suschunga hi I will make a Video is easier to understand if I show you all the brand sets and explain exactly what should be revamped to bring back a good build diversety. There will be also a Video about talents that needs to be revamped and a video about attributes. If everything is ready i will send the link.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @rockyramzy I have a full spread sheet, I don't need your visuals.

    If it were so easy, you could just drop two egregious, non-health based examples, and a sentence or two explaining what's wrong and what's the fix. Way easier than recording and uploading a video.

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @latenitedelight because its not only health.

    It is generally about the distribution of the bonuses and why some bonuses are not worth playing in a 2 or 3 bonus, etc. and many bonuses are repeated. In addition, it is too easy to get the best values if you only wear one piece of a brand, etc., etc.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @rockyramzy I know, you mentioned that. So you want to move things like Weapon & Crit & Regen/OnKill to the bottom of Brands?

    Because you think our builds are too strong? I guess I'm just not sure why it's a problem the Devs need to spend time on? It looks balanced and makes decent sense to me. Maybe some minor tweaks?

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    Or is this the backdoor way to use Fox's & Contractor's without "wasting" LMG & Rifle bonuses when you just want to run them with AR/SMG for PvP?

  • RockyRamzy
    Original poster 40 posts

    @latenitedelight no no absolutely no.

    it’s just about the brand sets and their bonuses 1-2-3 piece.

    it has nothing to do with to strong or too weak etc.

    I know it will never change but it would benefit a lot about build diversity, because there are some items that actually ruin the diversity because they are too outstanding and there are bonuses that are weaker than if you put them on your gear as an attribute.

    A lot of examples what could be better and way more fun to play and also make the diversity shine. Also it would give the brand sets a real meaning when it comes to 2 or 3 pieces of combinations.

    it has nothing to do with nerf or buff or why only 10% here and only 5% there absolutely not, it’s about the implementation and the idea behind this brand set concept.

    I’m speaking about both sides PVE and PVP.
    PVE is a big difference to PVP when it comes to the bonuses.

  • xcel30
    1022 posts

    @latenitedelight Dunno man, people never use more than single piece of Fenrir just because they want the AR damage bonus and nothing else, same happens with Petrov and Overload for LMG and Rifle damage. The number of people that must run multiple of them are probably close to 0 since stuff like 20% ammo capacity or 20% weapon accuracy their 2 and 3 bonus offer are not things people want, on the other hand i remember the amount of people crying that they couldn't stand trying to farm godrolled providence parts because all of 3 brand bonuses were pretty much what all people ever wanted to use.

    So you have mixed bags like Grupo Sombra that has explosive damage that is unique brand bonus as 2 pieces bonus, similarly golan gear is versatile because 2 pieces gives you regen but no one wears 3 pieces for the bonus armor.

    Pretty much a lot of brands have bad bonuses that nobody cares and instead they just stack 1 piece weapon bonus and then the rest with brands that give crits chance/damage for raw DPS, or armor regen if going tank with the occasional odd ball of yaahl for hazard protection. I gotta agree with him that people most of the time just go for cookie cutter crits with brand bonuses + weapon damage and that most 2-3 pieces brand bonuses are bad and should have another look, would you prefer 20% reload speed from fenrir or 10% crit chance from ceska?

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