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  • Oatiecrumble
    Original poster 672 posts
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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • SuspiciousPixel
    356 posts
    https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/ubv2lb/psa_you_can_stop_asking_for_more_stash_space/

    There you have it, now stop asking 😆

    Who's even asking?

    - Make new characters if you want more builds and loudouts.
    - Maybe stop hoarding onto items you hope will be useful one day even if they have God rolled stats.
    - Delete builds that you hardly ever use.
    - Stop creating the same build on each character
    - Do players really need all the exotic weapons and gear on each character?
    - Maybe utilise the items from stash and make a build from it.
    - If your other characters have builds that are not suitable for raids, legendary then maybe don't have all your best build on one character
    - Following from last point play with friends who have meta builds for completing missions effectively.
    - You can always farm for specific items again.

    • This is coming from someone who has 3 characters and 4h is mule.
    • Around 120 stash space full of exotics and named items which is in preparation for Expertise.
    • DZ stash full of named and exotics.
    • Between 113-130 inventory space on each character.
    • Does Raids on each character with randoms on Discord LFG.
    • Does Legendary missions on each character through in game matchmaking.


  • suschunga
    324 posts
  • Oatiecrumble
    Original poster 672 posts
    https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/ubv2lb/psa_you_can_stop_asking_for_more_stash_space/

    There you have it, now stop asking 😆
    Who's even asking?


    Not me but plenty have been......It's always popping up for some reason, not sure why as it's easliy fixed by doing the obvious.

  • III_Hammer_III
    113 posts

    So when is the update supposed to go live?

  • N3mB0t
    1032 posts

    "creative ways..."

    you dont need to be too creative to make the mods work like a 3rd atribute you could roll on the gear and skills , add it to the library and suddenly we have 100 more inventory and 100 more stash space.

    would also solve the complete mess that mods are in game and the way the sistem works now .

    and also maybe, just maybe , let us then optimize the damn things ? what is the problem in that too? that 12% PFE mod will become godlike at 13% if it isnt paid in dozens of hours playing to find one?

    WIN
    WIN
    WIN

    or am i missing something?

  • ArnudSwazaneger
    63 posts

    @oatiecrumble
    Surely on our side, extra stash storage could be as simple as a 256kb file (or even less) that acts as a key, and on their side, they keep a copy of that file/key and it's decrypted during the loading screen or some other points.

    These files/keys in turn, could be used for a storage crate file that is kept on our SSD/HDD's, so if it's say, a 5GB file, then it's on our end, not theirs.

    I think that's how Elite Dangerous works. So if that's the case, would this work out?

  • Macs1209
    91 posts

    @arnudswazaneger

    And after a time, people creative enough to decrypt it and manipulate. The server side storage a good thing, because anything happens on user side, or just moving the game from one pc/console to another not affect the gameplay, everything is same as you left it on last logout.

    The issue is the performance. Adding new data to a player (extending stash, loadout, inventory etc) means you add it million times (for each players). Only 1kb data for an user takes 1GB for 1 million players (and division2 sold more copy than 1M). An item have lot of data which not visible on player side, 1kb maybe cover 2-3 items only. Also everything happens on gameservers, when you move an item from inventory to stash, really a single variable set on an item which set item location to stash instead inventory, then both inventory and stash list pushed to player side to the game (client) update the visible list. Adding more player related data means higher load on gameservers (consume more RAM, slower access time, slower sync with dataservers etc). If you tested PTS, you could face with this, the new experise menu at the recalibration station was slow, missed icons/item in the list etc.

  • echolecter
    322 posts

    @macs1209 There is absolutely no technical limitation to expand player' stash sizes. Everything is stored in databases, and when setup right can be partitioned and hosted by different servers if needed. The only reason is they choose not to, that's it. The amount of data stored is like grain of sand in the desert. And in today' world Terabyte drives are common practice just for consumers, tiny fraction of total storage capacity at server farms. Speed only effect those that are stil using telephone lines, sending 1Mb can be done in split seconds and that contains a huge amount of data. You need a lot of paper if you'd print it.

  • Macs1209
    91 posts

    @echolecter
    You need to think on infrastructure level.
    1Mb can be transfered in a split second if you have dedicated bandwidth, but if the gameserver bandwitdh shared between 1000s of users, the situation change. First, the data need to be produced. The packet time is ~50 ms, this means all the gameplay packets from clients (game) must be processed, calculated, and replied within 50ms for all the connected users. Usually not all the 1000 player managing stash, they are out from safehouse, on a mission or in open world etc. The game (client) send only a few bytes related to player, everything happens on server: damage calculation, enemy move matrix, enemy behavior determination, bullet/hitbox calculation, etc, over this, all database related sync with dataservers need to fit this 50ms. This is a huge amount of calculation and data. This is the technical limitation. Servers have lot of CPU cores, lot of RAM, lot of storage space, Gbit of connection, but this shared between thousands of users (and connections to database servers).

  • ArnudSwazaneger
    63 posts

    @macs1209
    Well the user files would on Elite Dangerous, i think, they check at every load screen.
    I know people can cheat in Elite Dangerous, but as far as i know, not by manipulating inventory.
    ED's Inventory size is massive compared to this game, and ED, in terms of the gameworld/the environment it self is massive compared to this. (I think 200/400 Biillion systems?)

    I'm sure if the fingerprints of the file are in any way different to the fingerprints on the file stored server side, then you'd be in trouble.

    Think of even the basic fingerprints you get for picture files on your computer.
    Now, think of files that you are not the owner of, and it's set to Read Only. You have to jump through hoops to Take Ownership of it, to then be able to edit it. Well, what if their server is the owner of the files, and so by you taking ownership of it, the server will recognize that has been changed and again, you're in trouble.

    The only communication between you and their servers would be that small file being read.
    The actual storage crate content (like the game data it self), would be stored all on your SSD/HDD. Even if that means a 20GB bump in storage space requirements on our side, i think the vast majority of folks with the game right now would be happy, or at least ok with that.

    I know there's ways to make this happen for Division players. Ubisoft is a massive company that have put out tons of jaw dropping games in terms of playstyles, graphics quality, settings and storyline. We know they are great.
    Massive have proven themselves time and time again as well. If the Massive Entertainment developers first job was The Division 1, then they'd have more than earned their stripes just with that alone.

    I think we all have faith in them and their abilities at this point.

  • Noxious81
    1043 posts
    (...) There is absolutely no technical limitation to expand player' stash sizes. (...)


    This is not correct. Of course on the server-side it is not a problem at all to expand a database's size. But you also need to operate all this character data on the client-side – and just as all the other game data, character data is also being processed by the client's memory. Which indeed is limited. Especially for older hardware and last consoles, on which the game still has to run.

    So overflowing older client's memory with character data would cause latency issues at the least, most probably even more severe performance issues.

  • echolecter
    322 posts

    @noxious81 Well I will say it again, no technical limitation what-so-ever. Maybe they have choosen a wrong implementation for displaying items (load all at once) when it might create issues. Any idea how many 'item data' you can store in one texture image. Memory doesn't need to be huge for loading data, client already has objects installed and there is paging as well, we're only looking at menu.

  • suschunga
    324 posts

    There are multiple reasons that could be behind this limitation. It might be a policy limit on the part of the platform (consoles) owners. It might be a performance issue on last-gen consoles. It could be a load balancing issue on the game servers. It could be a combination of the above. Anyone confidently claiming "no technical limitations" without knowledge of the specifics is talking nonsense.

    Also remember that retrieving the inventory/stash is just one sub-system in the game. Other systems are still operating in parallel. If I'm looking at the inventory, the game world is still active around me. No sub-system operates in isolation, so one taking more cycles necessarily reduces the cycles available elsewhere.

  • Macs1209
    91 posts

    @suschunga
    And don't forget a gameserver serve not 1, not 10, but 4-500 players, each operation done within 50ms (you can see network stat, gameserver send data with 2mbps, receive with 1mbps, with 19-20pps). During this packet time, gameserver need to parse data, process (including dataserver communication), calculate the response for all the players. The whole game happens on server, you really see something like an RDP in Windows. Game send what you do with keyboard/mouse/controller, and get what to show you, nothing happens locally, not even a hitbox calculation.

  • III_Hammer_III
    113 posts

    @echolecter

    The storage of data is not the problem. To the game's programming, your in-game stash is just strings of hexadecimal numbers that take little space on a hard drive. It is the manipulation of the data that can present technical challenges.

  • III_Hammer_III
    113 posts

    @arnudswazaneger

    What you posted, it may make sense in your mind, but that's not how things work. Storage space is not the problem. The devil is in the manipulation of the data.

  • echolecter
    322 posts

    It's funny how people are trying to find excuses for a non-issue. They choose to limit it to a certain number and that's it, and it's fine with me, they can do whatever they want with their game. Now they plan to increase the size which to some seems impossible to do due to some made up limitations? If it really is causing problems they can't increase the size not in the past nor future, but since they are going to do it I suppose we will now run into a lot of problems.

    Menus are closest to static feature in the game so if any client can't handle those they aren't going to run the game itself either. Having everything else running in the backround is an implementation choice, not some sort of technical limitation. And if servers can't handle the stress of many people playing it's a failure of the online services and they should have choosen a different approach, or invest more. How many people are using Youtube every minute, no problems there.

  • ArthurFriend
    101 posts
    It's funny how people are trying to find excuses for a non-issue. They choose to limit it to a certain number and that's it, and it's fine with me,


    If you don't care, then just stay out of the discussion, to which you contribute nothing except wrong assumptions and unsubstantiated rejection of the arguments of others. Or participate with provable counter-arguments.

    Because from the way it reads, you indeed seem to mind that you don't get more stash space. And especially that you are not right about not being able to get it.
    So please don't let the discussion around stash space escalate senselessly just because you can't find inner peace. Thank you.

  • Oatiecrumble
    Original poster 672 posts
    @oatiecrumble
    Surely on our side, extra stash storage could be as simple as a 256kb file (or even less) that acts as a key, and on their side, they keep a copy of that file/key and it's decrypted during the loading screen or some other points.

    These files/keys in turn, could be used for a storage crate file that is kept on our SSD/HDD's, so if it's say, a 5GB file, then it's on our end, not theirs.

    I think that's how Elite Dangerous works. So if that's the case, would this work out?

    Pointless asking me, i don't know nothing about game programing so will not pretend i do 😳

    What i do know though is that getting extra stash space is very easy and never really been a problem for me.....yes it involves loading in and out of characters now and again but that takes seconds.

    Plus i know a good drop when i see one 👁

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