ubisoft discussions

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  • Macs1209
    90 posts
    Menus are closest to static feature in the game so if any client can't handle those they aren't going to run the game itself either.

    That's what you imagine.
    Only the ESC menu (on PC) is partially static with dynamic elements.
    If you go to Recalibration station and press F, game enter a "menu template" which contains no element, only the animation (zoom and loose focus), each element you get realtime from server. Then you enter a submenu (like in optimization menu's rifle point), you get the submenu content, the layout, the titles, the elements (your rifles) from server without any cache. If you go back, the menu pushed from server again instead of any caching. This is same all ingame menus, like stash, inventory, vendors, GE etc.

  • suschunga
    306 posts
    If it really is causing problems they can't increase the size not in the past nor future, but since they are going to do it I suppose we will now run into a lot of problems.

    That's not how programming works. To illustrate this, look at sorting algorithms: (https://www.toptal.com/developers/sorting-algorithms), all of which deliver the same end result. Some are just quicker at doing it than others, so you can swap one for a faster one. But you'll soon hit a wall as there isn't a even faster one. Similarly, the devs were able to increase the stash previously because they found a way to optimize it, but there may be no further headroom.

    Menus are closest to static feature in the game so if any client can't handle those they aren't going to run the game itself either. Having everything else running in the backround is an implementation choice, not some sort of technical limitation.

    It's a game designed around co-op, where other players can be doing completely different things in completely different areas of the map while you're in your inventory. You're talking about a fundamental change in architecture that would require a massive rewrite.

    And if servers can't handle the stress of many people playing it's a failure of the online services and they should have choosen a different approach, or invest more. How many people are using Youtube every minute, no problems there.

    Do you think you can reduce the length of a pregnancy by adding more women to it? Because that's what this ridiculous argument sounds like. If your complaint is that it's an "always online" game, that's a different argument. But that sort of architecture is kinda necessary for a live-service, co-op game. Especially one that offers this level of fidelity on last-gen consoles.

  • Macs1209
    90 posts

    @suschunga
    A pregnancy is a 9 month long period, independently how many woman used for this purpose same time. First time I found something funny on this site.

  • III_Hammer_III
    112 posts

    @echolecter
    No one is looking for excuses, and no one said it was impossible. what some are trying to do, is explain possible issues in altering/adding code (or in this case what you call "adding storage space").

    That menus have templates, it doesn't mean they are static. Every time you open one in game, what you see is generated on the fly. Even the templates themselves, they aren't pre-drawn sitting somewhere on your HD, they are also generated based on code.

    By your comment, it doesn't look like you understand what it means to "run a process in the background" or why it is done so.

    Comparing The Division with youtube doesn't help your case either.

    It happens a lot, that people learn about PC or console specs, apps, maybe even write a couple of scripts, but they really don't understand the complexity behind the programming in a modern video game.

  • Macs1209
    90 posts

    @iii_hammer_iii
    Just a side info: Gameserver pull the whole player's database on login and store locally in RAM, then sync with database server in every X minutes. In this case, RAM for hundreds of players is a weakpoint. Anyone easily can inspect that on delta, last few minute progress (looted item, changes made in inventory/stash/etc) are lost. Currently PTS have huge delta issues (every 10 mins for many players), so this DB behavior easily sensible (leveling up expertise by donating PTS caches, and progress always reverted).

  • echolecter
    310 posts
    It happens a lot, that people learn about PC or console specs, apps, maybe even write a couple of scripts, but they really don't understand the complexity behind the programming in a modern video game.


    As programmer and software publisher/developer with 35 years experience I think I can safely say I know exactly what is going on and how you actually write efficient business software, which doesn't differ that much from games and their back-end processes. If there is any limitation it is caused by implementation and design choices. Pure technically there aren't any limitations, and loading stuff on the fly doesn't have to be an issue as well. So from a technical point of view there really is no excuse, only the amount of effort they are willing to put into it and platforms they create. If their engine or (simplified) database cannot support storage extentions that doesn't mean other methods or design patterns don't work either. It's only a matter of choices made. And indeed some people or script goeroes dont have any idea what is going on under the hood or what other software designs are capable of doing in handling huge amounts of data.

  • ArnudSwazaneger
    63 posts

    @oatiecrumble
    Fair enough.

    I just assumed that those of us on PC had a better understanding, or at least an understanding to some degree at all, about such things.

  • Oatiecrumble
    Original poster 642 posts
    @oatiecrumble
    Fair enough.

    I just assumed that those of us on PC had a better understanding, or at least an understanding to some degree at all, about such things.


    I'm on console so have very little understanding with software, but i can fix p.c's 🤓 does that count 😆

  • ArnudSwazaneger
    63 posts

    @oatiecrumble
    Well i have been assembling computers since 2003, and been trimming the bloat and fat, and security holes, from operating systems since WinXP onward, and only stopped doing that when COVID lockdowns struck and no one wanted to do business in case they caught it. That experience with computers wouldn't count for me.

    However, what i meant by "On PC" was that from using the platform we'd have been into modding, using modding tools, and other tools like CheatEngine and Notepad++ etc etc, making, editing and even improving scripts, so that we'd have the basic understanding for how things operate even if only on a surface level at the least. Out of that sort of experience, we'd understand how games work a bit better, seeing as we're modding them and even improving them, and making them look better as well.

  • III_Hammer_III
    112 posts

    @echolecter

    Sure...

  • suschunga
    306 posts
    As programmer and software publisher/developer with 35 years experience I think I can safely say I know exactly what is going on and how you actually write efficient business software, which doesn't differ that much from games and their back-end processes.

    Having worked in IT consulting for over 20 years, one thing I know is that Dunning-Kruger syndrome is widespread. Familiarity with one particular domain doesn't mean you have any clue about other domains you've never worked in. What requirements need to taken into account when building a dialog system that supports localization? How do you approach developing an efficient raycasting system that can handle automated and manual sound design? All while running in real-time alongside a myriad of other sub-systems on platforms that are constrained by 10 year old laptop GPU's, 8GB of DDR3 and spinning hard drives?

  • echolecter
    310 posts
    ... one thing I know is that Dunning-Kruger syndrome is widespread

    Right, will leave it there. See you all next time when they actually have decided to increase the storage levels.

  • suschunga
    306 posts
    ... one thing I know is that Dunning-Kruger syndrome is widespread
    Right, will leave it there.

    So you've realized that the ability to write a COBOL batch program does not qualify you to write a co-op looter shooter? That's at least some progress.

    See you all next time when they actually have decided to increase the storage levels.

    From earlier:

    Similarly, the devs were able to increase the stash previously because they found a way to optimize it, but there may be no further headroom.

    In other words, it's possible they may find a way to do so in future. Just don't hold your breath.

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