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  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 557 posts

    Does anyone else use this, and if so, when the talent (Perfect Killer) procs do you see an icon in the HUD?

    It certainly feels like it's working after I kill a few NPCs and the next couple I shred in what seems like fractions of a second, but I never see a HUD icon.

    To further complicate things, I am using it with a 4-pc Striker, so it may just be that the Striker buff is stacked and that's why I am causing so much damage.

    I want these two (talent + Striker buff) to work together - and I think it is - but it's difficult to be sure.

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  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @sock_monkey I used to use it on my Anti-Pulse build, but switched over to Flatline since it's a Spotter build. Now it sits on an Obliterate variant in case folks are running Anti-Pulse as well. It's a great Crit Build SMG.

    I don't recall it ever having an icon, but I never really pay attention to that section of my screen.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 557 posts

    @latenitedelight Thanks.

    Yeah, they are consistent only in their inconsistency on this. Many talents display an icon when they proc, but some don't, and I am unable to discern what the deciding factor is.

    Or maybe there's none, and it's just laziness on their part?

  • N3mB0t
    1138 posts

    that gun talent icon appears next to it when shooting , like strained for example.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 557 posts

    @n3mb0t Ya know, you're right! And it's pretty small, too - no wonder I never noticed it before.

    Now that I know where to look, I do indeed see it.

    Also, I figured out a way to try and test it taking Striker stacks into account. I've been trying to decide between DW and a standard Vector. Both have CHC/CHD of 59/136, but of course Vector has higher base damage. Both have max SMG damage / max CHC as primary / secondary attributes, but Vector has Damage to Armor as tertiary, and for talent I rolled Fast Hands, since these things empty clips almost instantly. DW has Reload Speed as a tertiary attribute for the same reason.

    Shooting at an invulnerable target in the range, I see max critical hit damage of 381,228 when Striker is at full stack using the Vector. Shooting at the same invulnerable target with DW (i.e., no kills, so talent does not proc) I see max critical hit damage of 364,465 at full Striker stack.

    So here's the test: I shoot at the invulnerable target with DW, get Striker to full stack, then shoot diagonally and "kill" 2 or 3 of the targets at far-left of the range. I can see this procs Perfect Killer, so I point back at the invulnerable target and open up again and after a second or two (to refresh Striker stacks) I see max critical hit damage of 441,747.

    Huh? By my math, that's a CHD addition of closer to 21%, not the advertised 50%. Is there a cap on damage, or is this another talent that's broken?

    EDIT: I got to thinking that maybe I am miscalculating, and that Perfect Killer is calculated first and the Striker buffs stacks on top of that, so I removed a Striker piece so that Striker's Gamble is inactive, replaced it with another piece that had the exact same specs otherwise, and my crit hits with DW are 190,668. I proc the Perfect Killer talent by "killing" red targets at the far end of the range, and my crit hits are 231,098. This matches the roughly 21% I saw above, and proves that the Perfect Killer talent is broken.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @sock_monkey Crit is additive after your base weapon damage. With Crit Chance at 60%, you'd expect a smoothed 30% increase in WD, but that 30% is on top of your base WD, so reality for you is less than a 30% gain due to how the additive math works.

    Crit Damage isn't like Weapon Damage.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 557 posts

    @latenitedelight I tried several iterations and the math isn't working for me, so perhaps I am misunderstanding how it's calculated.

    Does all the crit damage add up, then multiply on base damage before +weapon damage (from gear)? Is that what you're saying? I have not calculated that yet.

    I tried calculating +50% on base crit, but that doesn't work either.

  • LateNiteDelight
    1040 posts

    @sock_monkey (WD + Crit*WD + HS*WD)*(MultiplicativeWD)

    For simple, easy numbers - assume you do 100 damage and have 136 CD. You'd do 236 damage without pKiller, but 286 with pKiller - which is 21% more overall damage. It's not always 21%, that will depend on your WD and your Crit numbers.

    Though reading your post, I'm now questioning how the talent reads. I always thought it was 50 more Crit, not 50% more Crit.. hmm..

    Edit: even if 50% more, you're not adding 50% more damage to your build - marginal utility and all that jazz. Ultimately the impact of Killer comes down to multiple factors, including your WD.

  • Sock_Monkey
    Original poster 557 posts

    @latenitedelight Ya know, I wonder if you didn't hit on the core of my misunderstanding. Any time I think of a +% number, I think multiplicative by default.

    For example, my current CHD is 136%, so when I think "+50%" my brain immediately says 136 x 1.5 = 204.

    However, crit is already measured in percentages, so perhaps instead of that equation it's 136 + 50 = 186 as you say.

    That would make [a lot] more sense, but it would be helpful if someone from Ubi could verify it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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