Just imagine.0 Likes/27 Replies/353 ViewsI3eard_of_War 487 posts
First of all Pre- made builds would be boring
It would be boring indeed but it will fill the DZ's.
The whole point of the Division is build making. Grinding for builds and theory crafting and testing it out.
True but you could still do this for Pure PvP in Conflict and Last Stand's PvEvP.
Last stand should come back
I think you are completely wrong when you say, pvp players just want to go into the dz and fight, I think the idea is to fight for the loot. If you see someone extract something. You fight for there loot or to extract your loot and not get it stolen. This is where the pve community cries.. This is what the Division was suppose to be. What made it original and epic. Yes we want to pvp but we also want that better loot. Either we farm it or we try and steal it.
Wouldn't say completely wrong, but I get your point here for sure.
And PvE players cry indeed about that, which I also don't get.
You know what could happen the moment you step foot in that area.
That's what I meant with The Wild West part.
It can be all fun and PvE, until a couple people decide its not.
The problem with Div 2 is they made the pvp so bad there is no skill gap
I think that the armor kits are partially the reason for that.
Medkits where 1 button, now you need to hold the button for 3sec.
Yes we have the System Corruption gear but that is 4 pieces that we could use for something else just for that 1 button medkit effect.
two players against you. well then you probably going to lose
I can proudly say as a PvE player that I have won this multiple times against different players.
I dont understand why the pve community cares so much about getting there loot stolen in the DZ.
Its not like you will never get that loot in the future
Because the loot drops are with trash attributes.
And the DZ exclusives are almost 0.2% drop rate.
Except the trash ones.
- Emperor kneepads drop like rain (even without kneepads/murakami loot)
- The apartment almost not (even with smg targeted loot) Dark winter seems to drop for me a lot.
- Yaalh or System Corruption is almost non existing for DZ only gear...
And it's not even that powerfull, it's good I guess. But not in a way that the drop chances have to be Exotic item low.
If those were normal drop rate gear.
And the Named items were always DZ exclusives than people wouldn't mind that much.
But in my experience it's mostly named loot that can also be obtained in the Open World. LOL
Plus when it finally is DZ exclusive its the doo doo one you don't want.
And always that Pestilence exotic drop...
If they made that Momento bags or made multiple new DZ only exotics.
That would be interesting too.
LateNiteDelight 1040 posts
@x0nemanarmyx There is no risk reward in the DZ, because of crying gankers. Instead, the PvP folks get nanny hands, like Extraction Notifications. They can go Rogue, kill someone in a landmark, then just wash away the sin as if it never happened to gank someone else. I go in regularly, because I don't care about losing loot [I just crush everything] - it's just the fastest way to farm Recon Mats and Landmarks are better than CPs in terms of fun.
I've made many suggestions for having a real risk reward. Like losing access to your skills, but gaining the Hunter Pulse + 5% WD/Armor when going Rogue. Rogue lasting 24 real world hours - but you get access to the Thieves Den [if you reach Manhunt] which rotates a new Named Item every day. No more extraction notifications. Is ISAC there and paying attention or not?
There is ZERO risk to going Rogue at the moment - and your reward is [censored] loot. So compelling...
Maliarto 25 posts
There's a reason I don't use strong OP builds. It keeps things engaging. "Rushing in ahead and winning with speed alone" gets old and stale. I like having to THINK. Movement. Cover. Smart use of it. And actually having to use abilities.
I can do that in PVE. I can't do that in PVP where my shield goes after three hits. The problem is the builds are always going for DPS. Players in dark zone can't respond/react. So there's less "engagement". More "easy wins". I like to struggle as well (provided things can still be possible).
Thing is people complain about damage spounges. Now players get killed in the blink of an eye. Got a shield? It's gone. Thee hits from a rapid fire weapon and you're forced into cover or down on the floor. The game is clealy taking the DPS route instead of emplying other methods effectively. Or if other methods can be effective the fact that so many go down DPS lane overshadows it. The only way to balance that is to nerf the damage, but then people complain about how tanky everything is.
Damned if you do and damned if you dont. Can't please everyone. Personally I say give me the more tanky styles. At least then people have to think and outflank more. Actually engage. If people aren't struggling and having to use cover (or shields. etc) then it isn't keeping players engaged. It's just on the rails, brainless steam rolling which will get old.
ATF-Xeno 74 posts
Without effective anti-cheating measures, one cheating player (hacker) can ruin the entire pvpve environment. It's a pity that div2's anti-cheating measures can almost be described as non-existent. Therefore, before you want to expand the DZ gameplay to the entire open world, it is best to think about how to deal with hacking and cheating effectively and in a timely manner.
desrocchi 226 posts
I think you are completely wrong when you say, pvp players just want to go into the dz and fight, I think the idea is to fight for the loot.
Sure, that's exactly why there's the whole thing of killing at extraction and destroying the loot in front of the downed people...
PvE players just don't care for the PvP part, that's all. You like it, we don't.
The idea of a open world pve/pvp where anyone can steal your loot is amazing.
There are numerous games with that premise, like DayZ, they all have no playerbase. It's a failed concept.
Towards the end. The DZ was alive.
Towards the end they introduced dailies and weeklies to force people to enter the DZ in order to get optimization materials.
People went in the DZ to get those, not to play the PvP.
SuspiciousPixel 553 posts
How cool would it have been, if Division 2 had devs that didn’t cater to the casual player. Or get scared to make this game what it should have been. I know, I know. You 50+ year old pve players don’t like the Darkzone but it is what the division was meant to be. They marketed it that way before they released Division 1. A open world pve/pvp, where the best loot was and you had to fight to extract it. Somewhere along the way the devs got soft and because of this, we have Division 2. Don’t get me wrong. The Division 2 is a great game the pve is amazing and the open world is far more alive then Div1 but that’s it. Why were they so scared to make the DZ toxic like div1. There is a game called sea of thieves that is very much like the DZ. You get loot and then you have to sell it. People can gank you and steal your loot. For a long time the same thing happened where people complained about getting ganked but the devs never batted a eye to changing that style of play. It’s what makes the game so fun. Risk vs reward. I know this rant has probably been brought up many times before and Div 2 is at the end of its cycle here. I just can’t help but hope that if they make a Division 3, go back to what the original idea was for the DZ. That is the true end game. It’s suppose to be toxic and salty. Getting ganked sucks but it doesn’t mean you won’t get that loot later. We all have been ganked many times. That’s just the fun of it. So if the devs see this. Please stop catering to the casuals. Pve players no matter how much they hate the dz, or won’t go in there. They will still play the game. You can lock the best loot behind the DZ and they will still play. The pve players will be upset but they will still play. They just want to shoot some NPC’s and get some loot.
feel free to hate on me. I’m just sad that a community of pve players was able to cry loud enough that these soft devs built Division 2 as a sequel.
Where do I even start with this lol
For context the video you are referring to is this:
That was an early tech demo, proof of concept video, a marketing video to get people excited in a brand new IP. There were technical limitations to why we never got an open world PVE/P RPG world. Consoles, PC hardware, server infrastructure limitations were very big reasons. It's similar reasons why PC players on launch were upset that the graphics, UI looked completely different than the tech demo.
As for Division 1 Dark Zone, compared to the beta and what we ended up with was a crying shame. Massive had something very special which other gaming studios have capitalized on creating amazing online looter shooter extraction games. I have to give Massive some rope here because the IP was new, the DZ concept was new and they were most likely overwhelmed by people shouting from both sides of the camp how the DZ concept should be.
It goes back to the old SkillUp vs MarcoStyleNL arguments. One wanted to casualize the DZ the other wanted a more hardcore experience so when it came to Division 2 we got something that lost it's identity and core. A place where there were no rules, a dog eat dog world, non normalized that had great loot amongst other things.
There is no easy solution to this but I want the early Redstorm/Massive team to not be easily persuaded and have the creative freedom to do whatever they want. They tried to find solutions to cater for the casual playerbase and it ruined Division 1 DZ and Division 2 DZ. If they ever want to release Division 3 then they should have a brainstorming session on what made DZ great in Div 1&2, because 2 does have some good ideas such as the Dark Zone perks at the BOO.