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  • n00bringer
    Original poster 3 posts

    Title, gryphon feels awful to play nowadays, each time heroes are coming stronger and that is a good thing, what is not good is how gryphon was gutted because of the outcry, he is always a step behind and facing for example a raider is an impossible match up for him.
    He has the tools to deal with current heroes but lacks the properties to properly punsih, pursuit of play the game of today, with such thing in mind these are my suggestions.

    1. Neutral 600 ms shove is back, dodge shove still the same, like pre nerf
      1. Can chain into a chain attack on miss after a shove
    2. Foward dodge light is enhanced and undodgeable, this way he will have an actual mix up
    3. Foward dodge heavy is undodgeable
    4. Heavy finishers have HA at 100 ms into the move, so he can properly trade
    5. Light finishers and chain lights are enhanced
      1. A big part of an underapreaciated part of the game is the chip dmg, specially on teamfights, having the enhanced property will allow gryphon to land a tiny extra bit of dmg to enemies that play safe vs him
      2. Also he will have neutral undodgeable into undodgeable finisher, having 2 consecutive undodgeables will make him a counter to every overly reliant dodge hero
    6. Can follow up with his heavy follow up after a missed kick, veteran slash is unblockable
      1. This makes a mind game on miss, since veteran slash is unfeintable makes it a read between the gryphon will throw it and be parried or hold it but guaranteed a GB, inspired by shaolin sweep
    7. Can get a guaranteed combo light after landing a neutral heavy, 27 dmg light parry
    8. Top heavy finisher is unblockable
      1. He cannot put pressure across a teamfight, the only one that he threatens are the ones right besides him, if the top finisher was unblockable he could put pressure to anyone in his vicinity but only 1 target, the perfect complement for an attack with such reach.


    That would be it, i only want to have tools that can be used normally, since only reworked heroes stand a chance vs other reworks or new heroes.

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  • Lostdarknight_
    34 posts

    @n00bringer I played against him.Some one mained him.He was absulute cancer to deal with.But noobs use that dodge attack into kick too damn much and get melted away XD

  • MrBdur
    163 posts

    No one's buffing Gryphon, bud.

    If you can't do well with Gryphon, you need to practice. He is already an overtuned hero.

  • n00bringer
    Original poster 3 posts

    @MrBdur Dude try playing gryphon vs any decent hero and he gets destroyed, only low skill players think that he is good and get destroyed by him.

  • DarrowsHowlers
    593 posts

    @n00bringer Gryphon is descent. B tier. Id like to see him bumped up to A tier which is where I believe the cast should be balanced around. I dont see a point to his forward dash light because his double lights already allow him to short link into his finishers. So his forward light should be enhanced. I also like that idea about the top heavy finisher being unblockable to give him more viability for team fight. But I cant go along with all your buff ideas. That would make Gryphon a god.

  • PanzerShrekonin
    11 posts

    Gryphon is fine where he's at. He was extremely strong when released and now hes been brought down to proper levels. He's still super easy to play with Dodge HEBY and KICK HEBY.

    He's cancer to fight against even to this day.

  • undondory
    879 posts

    @PanzerShrekonin
    sounds like bliss.
    all I get are laggy light spammers that I can't parry because lag. nope I dodge and hope for the best and its 100% gonna be a light finisher I've seen matches where I don't see one kick

  • PanzerShrekonin
    11 posts

    @undondory

    I dont see alot of dodges from players who actually know how to play Gryphon well. Its just a meme ive heard other streamers/youtubers talk about with Gryphon about how alot of players just do dodge heby and kick heby and still manage to come out on top, because the kick is extremely oppressive.

  • undondory
    879 posts

    @PanzerShrekonin
    still sounds preferable

  • DarrowsHowlers
    593 posts

    @PanzerShrekonin Personally I'm fine were he is at too. B tier. That's a pretty good spot. Still, I think he should be a little stronger. Just that the original poster of this thread proposed Gryphon become the Francis Ngaunnu of FH. His forward light is pretty useless and an unblockable option on top heavy finishers wouldnt be broken (you cant chain two and a row and its not a neutral attack). It's just a good 4v4 option to have. You say his kick is oppressive. But the truth is it's a free gb if it misses unlike Shoalin and (HL who recovers to fast). The ideas I proposed would bump him up to A tier.

  • PanzerShrekonin
    11 posts
    This post is deleted!
  • Mayan_Master
    559 posts

    @n00bringer its fine is good in experienced hands...in fact a little lag or high latency converts his spam insufferable, bad gryphons don´t know how to mix , but no monkes are good.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    337 posts

    @n00bringer

    Just yesterday, I went 32-2 with him in Breach. Against 2 experienced (Gryphon, Warmonger) players and 2 newer ones (Warden, Lawbringer). He is not a hero I play often, when he came out I brought him to Rep 10 and since then I barely touch him. Mainly because I think the devs nerfed him too much (plus, I hate non-delayable dodge attacks, they feel awful) and because I tend to focus on my 3 favourite heroes (Lawbringer, Warden and Valkyrie).

    So, I don't think he is outdated or weak by any means. In capable hands (not mine, there are way better Gryphon players than me out there) he is really powerful. His feats can also help a lot.

    But as I said I do agree that he was over-nerfed, however with all of your suggestions he would become a monster again. Nobody wants that. Imo he only needs a couple of changes to get back into the spotlight.

    • He should get his 600ms neutral bash back (the current one from dodge is removed)
    • He should be able to chain on a missed bash (not after the kick)
    • Feintable dodge forward heavy
    • HA should activate 100ms into the finisher heavies
    • (Bonus: he should get back his original input window on side dodge attacks)


  • SARGON__
    47 posts

    @Csodaszarvas_G His forward light attack also should be given undodgeable property in my opinion.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    337 posts

    @SARGON__

    Fair enough, though I don't see the point in it since that forward dodge light has a really short range so it's questionable what he would be able to catch with it. Similarly to Tiandi dodge lights.

    With his bash removed from the forward dodge and made a back walk + GB input again (according to the theoretical suggestions we're discussing), he wouldn't even have a 50/50 between the two.

  • DarrowsHowlers
    593 posts

    @Csodaszarvas_G I dont see why people are obsessing over characters having the ability to chain after whiffing a bash. Current Gryohon needs that but if his forward light was enhanced he wouldnt. Your ideas would make him almost a replica of Tiandi. Undodgeable dash lights, feintable forward heavy, and a back square neutral bash input. And chains on whiff. Really his bash threat is enough incentive to force a reaction from the opponent to dodge or not to. I think an enhanced forward light and then his original bash would be plenty balanced for opening capabilities.

  • IlluminatiEyes
    1696 posts

    @DarrowsHowlers
    I think the problem was that the Gryphon moveset was based on that unreactable bash from neutral... As soon as that was taken, his bash is not bad, but not good. And he had big damage input... And beeing easy to play, these were his main issues after release.

    Now he is just a B tier, and probably worst without feats. Because even if people dodge early the kick, they can block the side heavy finisher.

    I think he needs more... But Lawbringer, Jorm, Warden, Highlander and others are in a worst position than Gryphon.

  • DarrowsHowlers
    593 posts

    @IlluminatiEyes yea I guess his bash is fine. I've seen people react to it by most players cant. So I think an enhanced forward light and and unblockable top heavy finisher would do well for him. But he is far from the top of the rework list

  • IlluminatiEyes
    1696 posts

    @DarrowsHowlers
    At this point i think almost every hero should have an UB.

  • Csodaszarvas_G
    337 posts

    @DarrowsHowlers

    That's also fair enough. Just keep in mind please that I don't want his dodge light to be undodgeable. I said that I don't see the point of it being UD.

    As for the Tiandi replica argument... every hero is basically the replica of two others nowadays (with maybe a few exceptions) and though I like the idea of preserving hero identity, Gryphon doesn't have one, no matter how you look at it. He is literally Holden Cross traveling around and "stealing" moves and fighting styles from all factions. His uniqueness comes from the fact that he's not unique. Plus, I just mainly want to give him back some of his original features so my ideas are basically (more or less) what the devs originally envisioned for him. If that's too similar to Tiandi then... that's that.

    Personally, I wouldn't like to make his forward dodge light enhanced as it would give him a really easy way to spam his kick. Too much pressure. In the case of Kensei (whom he borrowed that attack from) however it would be ok, since Kensei doesn't have a bash after it, only an UB top heavy (a really slow one) so you have multiple ways to defend yourself, whereas in Gryphon's case you must dodge no matter what and he has it backed up with an undodgeable light as well.

    The unblockable top heavy finisher seems fine though.

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