ubisoft discussions

Quick Suggestions

  • 5 Likes/63 Replies/471 Views
    Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    Reading posts about runes here in the forum, e.g. from @Polyedra, @TheNorfolkian, @SpirantCrayon22 , it looks like the runes don't give equal value if stacked, and it also looks like each rune is behaving differently. I started looking into this.

    If you add a rune, you need to leave the inventory for the game to update your stats. You can check your stats in the inventory by clicking the key on bottom left of the inventory screen labeled "hero stats" (PS4 controller: L3).

    First set of runes tested: the runes you can put on your armor to increase your damage output.

    Your armor has 14 slots for runes and 1 slot for special runes. In the 14 slots you can put all kinds of different armor runes. For this investigation I have first cleared my armor of all runes, then added the same runes into the 14 slots, step by step, and looked at my stats.

    First I checked the stats without any runes.
    Then put on 1 rune and checked the stats again. Then put on an additional rune of the same type, and checked the stats again, until I had all 14 runes stacked on my armor.

    Here's what I found:

    Armor Runes: Damage Runes





    The game offers 4 different rune types to add to your armor to increase the damage you do:

    Ranged: Great Hunter Rune, adds 2.3 Ranged Damage
    Melee: Great Warrior Rune, adds 2 Melee Damage
    Assassin: Great Assassin Rune, adds 3.3 Assassin Damage
    Stealth: Great Shadow Rune, adds 2.3 Stealth Damage

    General observation: the runes don't act the same. For each different rune there is a specific set of stat increases the player gets when stacking it. And those increases decline for each additional rune stacked. You get diminishing returns already after just a few runes.

    Let's look at the stacking behavior of each of those runes in more detail. The table above gives the following info:

    Name of rune, type of damage, value of the rune when you look at it in your inventory

    Amount: amount of runes stacked. 0 means I have no rune on my armor. 1: I have 1 rune put on, etc
    Stats: the value of my "hero stats" for that particular type of damage the rune does
    Diff: the increase in stats the added rune gives.
    % Incr the percentage of the rune value of that increase


    1) Great Hunter Rune (+2.3 Ranged Damage)

    • The first 4 runes I stacked show the full rune value as increase: 2.3.
    • The 0.1 higher increase for 3 and 4 runes likely are a rounding error: the game only displays 1 digit after the decimal point.
    • If I put on more than 4 ranged runes their increases decrease on a curve. The more runes the lower the increases. The 14th rune then only gives 0.2 increase.
    • Filling my armor with 14 ranged damage runes gives me total of 20 increase compared to armor alone.


    2) Great Warrior Rune (+2 Melee Damage)

    • The first rune increases melee damage correctly by the exact rune value. But then rune 2 to 5 increase the melee damage higher than the rune's value! It might be a glitch. This is the same behavior as the Evasion rune from post 2. It looks like both runes were initially supposed to give 2.5 instead of 2.0. When they changed it they forgot to change the code as well.
    • Starting at rune 6 the added rune value decreases, just like the ranged damage rune. It looks also like a curve. However, as the melee damage rune is just 2 points, even 0.4 and 0.3 increase are still 20% or 15% of the rune's value.
    • Altogether with 14 melee damage armor runes my melee damage increased total by 20 points also.


    3) Great Assassin Rune (+3.3 Assassin Damage)

    • With this rune you can stack 3 runes and get the full value of the rune added to your stats.
    • Rune 4 through 11 show the same curve-like decline of added rune value, same as in the other runes.
    • But if you stack more than 11 runes you are getting no more value added per rune! That is 3 runes added at 0 value. That is unique behavior for this damage rune.
    • Filling the armor with these runes gives only 15 points.


    4) Great Shadow Rune (+2.3 Stealth Damage)

    • You can stack 4 runes and get the full value of the rune added to your stats.
    • Rune 5 through 14 show the same curve-like decline like the other damage runes.
    • Filling the armor with these runes give 20 points.



    Runes to stack with full rune value or a bit more:

    Ranged Damage: 4
    Melee Damage: 5
    Assassin Damage: 3
    Stealth Damage: 4

  • Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    The next set of armor runes tested are the body runes Health, Armor, Weight, and Evasion


    Armor Runes: Body





    The runes in this post deal with your body: health, armor, weight, and evasion.

    Health: Great Rune of Life, adds 18.9
    Armor: Great Shell Rune, adds 2
    Weight: Great Feather Rune, deducts 1.5
    Evasion: Great Evasion Rune, adds 2

    General observations:

    • The evasion rune behaves like the melee damage rune: first rune gives exact rune value increase, the next 4 runes give higher increase than the rune value itself.
    • Ubisoft does not want us to use more than 1 armor weight rune: only 1st rune give full value, the rest all less than half the supposed value!



    1) Great Rune of Life (+18.9 Health)

    • The first 2 runes give the full rune value as increase.
    • The 3rd rune gives just 64.6% of the rune value as increase
    • From then on the increase goes down steeply: runes only give 26.5% to 21.2% increase.
    • Filling my armor with 14 runes gives me total of 95.8 increase compared to armor alone.


    2) Great Shell Rune (+5 Armor)

    • Rune 1 to 3 increase armor correctly by the exact rune value.
    • Then the increase goes down steeply: runes only give 28% or 26% increase. Since the values are so low and only 0.1 difference this could be a rounding error.
    • Altogether with 14 runes my armor increased total by 30 points.


    3) Great Feather Rune (-1.5 Weight)

    • Only the first rune gives its full value!
    • All other added runes give either 0.7 or 0.6 weight reduction. Probably rounding error: they are most likely supposed to give the same reduction: a bit less than half the rune's value.
    • Stacking the armor with 14 weight runes only reduces 10 weight.


    4) Great Evasion Rune (+2 Evasion)

    • Just like the warrior rune for melee damage in the 1st post the first rune gives full value, rune 2 to 5 give even more than the rune's value
    • Rune 6 through 14 show the same curve-like decline seen in the damage runes.
    • Filling the armor with 14 runes give 20 points again, just like the damage runes.



    Runes to stack with full rune value or a bit more:

    Health: 2
    Armor: 3
    Weight: 1
    Evasion: 5

    (other runes coming over time here in this thread)




  • A Former User
    0 posts

    @Randelia This comprehensive listing is soothing, and informative; thank you.

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    @Polyedra Thank you. It shows that we are not supposed to use more than 1 weight rune. If somebody really intends to reduce the weight of a heavy armor that won't do much at all. And if you stack your armor full with assassin damage runes the last 3 runes don't give anything.

    Ubisoft: stuff like that and the other peculiar findings in this thread should be well documented. (More coming soon)

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    @Randelia I think it is interesting, with weight, that it goes down to ~40% effectivity and then stay there.
    Stamina management feels important. Maybe they're more value than is apparent.
    10 less weight will be 60 weight, going from 70.. That's a seventh reduced. You'll still be able to do only 7 dodges *I think* before the stamina runs out but if you would dodge when the stamina is not completely full, or dodge in the middle of replenishing (it happens, doesn't it), then I think this helps. Maybe it helps more than other things. maybe...

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    This is most helpful, Rand. 3 armor runes at full effectivity you say.. hmm, good that.

    They must've made it like this so all runes are desirable. I'm not sure if it's good though. I mean I will only socket the same way for practically everything anyway. But I always did that. Like I always picked warrior runes.
    The gains are small which is disappointing but perhaps necessary. These small increases of stats drown in the plenty we already have. I can't help to wish for it to be more important and that there'd be more choices.

    Edit: I can spec into damage but not pure melee. Pick some here and there. Say 4 ranged runes and I'd get 4 headshot runes too. That's nice.. Like 10 more ranged damage and 10 more on headshot then. That's not so bad considering I have 120 ranged damage. But that ranged damage is inflated by light damage too, or heavy.. idk if a fully charged shot from a hunter's bow would benefit from heavy damage, for example; would make sense to me if it would. Not that it matters too much because those are very similar anyway.

  • SpirantCrayon22
    2271 posts

    @Randelia

    hey, @ubisoft, you should have done this for us

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    The next set of armor runes tested are the fight resistance runes ranged resistance, melee resistance, light resistance, heavy resistance, and elite resistance.



    Armor Runes: Fight Resistance





    The runes in this post give resistance during fights: Ranged, Melee, Light, Heavy, and Elite.

    Ranged: Great Safeguard Rune, adds 2.5
    Melee: Great Shield Rune, adds 3.5
    Light: Great Rune of Protection, adds 3.3
    Heavy: Great Bulwark Rune, adds 3.3
    Elite: Great Aegis Rune, adds 2.3


    General observations:

    • Both Light Resistance and Heavy Resistance runes behave similarly with the same rune value, and 3 full value stackable runes. But the Light Resistance rune has a much sharper decline in increases when stacking more runes than the Heavy Resistance.
    • Melee Resistance rune has the highest rune value of 3.5 but you only can stack 2 at full value!



    1) Great Safeguard Rune (+2.5 Ranged Resistance)

    • The first 3 runes give the full rune value as increase.
    • The other runes have diminishing returns, and their added value decreases on a curve.
    • Filling my armor with 14 runes gives me total of 20 increase compared to armor alone, just like most of the damage runes.


    2) Great Shield Rune (3.5 Melee Resistance)

    • Only 2 runes increase correctly by the full rune value.
    • Then the increase goes down on a steeper curve than ranged resistance.
    • Rune 13 has 0.2 increase and rune 14 shows 0.3 increase. That looks like a rounding error.
    • Altogether with 14 runes my armor increased total by 20 points, just like ranged resistance: the degrading curve is steeper but the rune value is higher, leading to the same total points as ranged.


    3) Great Rune of Protection (+3.3 Light Resistance)

    • The first 3 runes give the full value.
    • Rune 4 shows a sharp decline in value: just 42.4% of the full rune value!
    • The other runes show diminishing returns on a curve.
    • The 14th rune adds no value!
    • Filling my armor with 14 runes gives me total of 15 increase.


    4) Great Bulwark Rune (+3.3 Heavy Resistance)

    • Just like the light and ranged resistance runes the first 3 runes give the full value.
    • Rune 6 through 14 show a less sharp curve-like decline than for light resistance, starting at 57.6% of rune value.
    • Filling the armor with 14 runes give 20 points again, just like the ranged and melee resistance runes.


    5) Great Aegis Rune (+2.3 Elite Resistance)

    • The first 4 runes give the full value or a bit more. This helps to fight powerful bosses!
    • Even rune 5 still gives 91.3% of the full value. But then we see the decrease curve again.
    • The 14th rune adds no value!
    • Filling the armor with 14 runes give 19.7 points. (Maybe the design was to 20 points total with rune 14 giving 0.3 instead of just 0, but the code has a bug).




    Runes to stack with full rune value or a bit more:

    Ranged Resistance: 3
    Melee Resistance: 2
    Light Resistance: 3
    Heavy Resistance: 3
    Elite Resistance: 4

    (other runes coming over time here in this thread)

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    Thank you, Rand; you're an owner.

  • TheNorfolkian
    1848 posts

    @Randelia Can’t upvote this stuff more than once, but if I could, I would. Superb analysis! Everyone who plays this game should know exactly what is going on when they use runes.

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    Thank you guys very much! I bet a lot of folks do it like I did: e.g. putting 1 weight rune on every armor piece of a heavy armor to lighten its weight. And since I play slouched in front of the tv I don't think about finding out if that works and how to check my stats 😄 Same with the resistance runes, and many others.

    The armor weight runes are pretty much useless. The first one gives value, the rest only a fraction. I hope the folks wondering about their build and why it does not seem to work read this.

  • SpirantCrayon22
    2271 posts

    @Randelia great work - there's a problem (not you or what you're doing) and I've alluded to it already

    there are too many variables

    value - three on one piece or one on three pieces?
    do all armour pieces (or weapons) behave the same?
    do the values translate into play?
    do armour and weapon runes affecting the same stat (assassin, feather and light) stack independently or do they affect each other?
    which weapon runes are active at what time?
    there are other questions

    it really needs the designer to tell us how it all works - but that is not to detract from a good piece of work, well done you!

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    @SpirantCrayon22 Exactly. I thought about that last night after posting the third table. The table screenies I copied to my cell for easy check in the game. Will do a spot check for some runes if it changes if I put the runes on one by one but each time on a different armor piece. Let's see what happens.

  • A Former User
    0 posts

    @Randelia Yea, I also thought that of course it would affect that particular piece of equipment when it was about weight. Not that it matters too much because few things are lighter than 4.5.

    @SpirantCrayon22 Weapon light runes stack separately from armor runes. They even stack separately from respective weapons. You can have 1 on each weapon with full effect, or two with reduced but still better than 40% effectiviness. Only problem with that is the damage loss. Because weapon runes should pan out to be at least some percentages of damage.

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    I spent some time playing around with armor runes. Putting them on in different combinations. It looks like they only affect their respective stats and don't interact with one another. Weight runes don't matter on which piece you put them, or on which slot. It looks like the game just checks the amount of runes you have of a type and not where they are slotted, or which other runes you have on. They only affect the stats in the same way as the tables show.

    It even does not matter how many Fire Resistance and Fire Build Up runes you have together on the same piece or adjacent slots, or whatever. They also only affect their respective stat and don't interfere with each other or the poison runes or other resistance or weight or melee damage or ranged damage runes.

    With that in mind it looks like the tables here seem to represent the behavior of the runes with the current update 1.6.0. Of course this can change anytime at any new update.

    I only can test how the game reacts. There might be all kinds of stuff in the code I haven't experienced. To find out what really happens in the game with the runes we would need to take a good long look at the source code. I don't even think any of the devs would know all of this information: the game has been worked on 2 years since release and a long time before that. Different folks have worked on it, left, others picked up the work as good as they could. Each of the devs probably knows what is going on in the particular piece of the code they are currently working on, but nobody knows the whole thing. I bet there is lots of stuff lost in the code somewhere that nobody knows about anymore. Some code pieces probably contradict others and cause difficult to track down bugs. I bet a lot of that stuff is going on in the Valhalla code.

    So at this point I will just post the results of the final armor rune stuff: the Elemental Resistance Runes.

    Even though the rune values, rune decrease curves, amount of runes you can stack at face value, etc might change, the key principles from this thread most likely will remain:

    • For any given rune there will always be a certain number of runes that will stack at full rune value. The rest will have diminished returns.
    • When stacking runes the decrease of the rune value will always either be a curve, or linear with only very low values.
    • It's not worth putting on too many runes of one type.
    • And finally: regardless of how many weight runes you put on, you'll never be able to fly in England 😉





  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    The final set of armor runes tested are the elemental resistance runes: Fire Damage Resistance, Fire Build-Up Resistance, Poison Damage Resistance, and Poison Build-Up Resistance.

    Armor Runes: Elemental Resistance





    Fire Damage Resistance: Great Rune of Rain
    Fire Build-Up Resistance: Great Water Rune
    Poison Damage Resistance: Great Antidote Rune
    Poison Build-Up Resistance: Great Remedy Rune

    All those runes add 2 points. At my level I got all the skill points and have the same values for those elemental resistances. I never checked while leveling up, but you likely get more points for an elemental resistance if you pick up a skill point for it. That would then result in different stats values for your elemental resistances.

    All those runes behave exactly the same, give the same points for a specific amount of runes stacked, give full value for 5 stacked runes and a bit more, and show the same decrease behavior.

    I bet those runes were initially designed to have higher value, hence their behavior of giving more than their full rune value for rune 2 to 4, and the code was never changed, just the rune value.

    As far as I know you can mix and match them with the other armor runes, I haven't seen any interference of armor runes with other armor runes in my "rune playtime" today.

    That's it right now for the armor runes. Will take a break and then look at the weapon runes. Let's see how they behave.

  • azullFR
    2848 posts

    @Randelia

    it's not really related to runes (but still to stats) : maybe you will be able to explain me this :

    Spoiler Tag to spare some space and to keep your topic clean 🙂
    spoiler
    Many, Many Thanks to you for your work !
    it's a fantastic job you are doing here (job that should have been done by Ubi) !!! 👍👍👍👏👏👏

    [Post-edited] : writting this post make me wondering if Difficulty settings have an impact on the "4 under" weight, after testing using "Easiest difficulty" and then "Drengr difficulty" = no single change in actual weights and armor (Naked Weight is 14 and naked Armor is 4.5 in my case)

    Note : If needed and if you wan't to keep your fantastic topic clear I can move this post in my old topic, do not hesitate to tell me 🙂

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    @azullFR You might have some skills somewhere at your level that armors won't impact you with their full weight. I remember noticing something like that as well recently: armors don't impact me with their full weight. Will check some more.

  • Randelia
    Original poster 431 posts

    I copied an old save and checked: it's the same for Eivor when she is still in Norway before going to England: her naked weight is 14, and when I put armor on her the total weight is always 4 less than it should be somehow. Regardless if you put on 1 piece of armor or a whole set.
    Weapons: it is 5.

    For my current Eivor it's weird: if I put on a dane axe on naked Eivor the total weight is almost 5 less but not quite. If I put on a sickle it's only 0.2 more than naked weight. There must be some math behind it. Might be dependent on upgrade level, ingots used, etc. Could be worth looking into.

    Edit: Naked Eivor has 14 weight. Plus a sickle which has 10 weight: total is 14.2 with all skill points. If I unassign the skill points, the weight goes up to 19. That is Naked Weight + Sickle weight - 5, just as low level Eivor had in my old save with her weapons she had then.

    Means the skill points give me proficiency at carrying the weapon better: consuming less stamina with it. The skill tree itself has sickle skills in there. I remember getting them at some point. Without skills a sickle of 10 weight packs 5 weight (seems to be Eivor's natural weapon skills he has from the game's beginning). With skills that same sickle packs only 0.2 weight. 2 sickles pack 0.4 weight if equipped. And if you hover cursor over weight in your stats it says something about stamina, so the difference must be the weapon skill to wield the weapon "better" by consuming less stamina than without skill points.

    Eivor starts the game with his viking weapon skills that take 5 weight off weapons. Then when he picks up weapon skill points that weight reduces further.

    Also: check your Raven, Wolf, and Bear skills and master skills. Those highly likely also change how a weapon behaves when you put it on.

  • azullFR
    2848 posts

    @Randelia
    interesting, and nice insights about weapons 👍 👍

    I just looked at clothes :
    no matter : your skill level , the Clothes quality, the Clothes level, no matter if full clothes set or one piece =
    result is always 4 less than "expected"

    seems that this "4 less than expected" weight is a constant value for clothes, I have no idea why and how ( maybe even at Ubisoft game team most people don't know why 😉 )
    Conclusion : skill points don't change this constant value but are still changing clothes weight

    I will try to give a try to upgraded spears vs not upgraded ones tomorrow 🙂
    [Edit] :
    Tested only with "Fafnir spear" (approximative name), a Wolf weapon, (any quality, any weapon level from 1 to 10)
    "Wolve's head" skill points don't change the "5 weight less than expected" constant value but are still changing this Wolf weapon's weight
    🙂

Suggested Topics