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  • topic_unsolved Shouldn't productivity bonuses apply to oil REFINERY rather than per oil WELL?

    0 likes/19 replies/626 views
    hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    7 oil wells, total productivity bonus of 60+60+40+55+50=265
    but instead of 700+265 (965) you get 700+7*265=2555

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  • Ubi-Thrupney
    Ubisoft Support Staff ubisoft:x-posts, 3343

    Heya @hundreAd1800 ,

    That's a lot of productivity. I don't know if this is intended or not, so I've reached out to the team to find out, and I'll get back to you 👍

    official-response
  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    @Ubi-Thrupney this is how the oil wells have always worked. In my opinion it would be unintuitive if an oil refinery would get a _smaller_ benefit from the items if it has more oil wells connected to it. And it would also work very differently from all the other production plants. You should just consider the oil wells similar to the pig sties or cattle pastures. Also in their case the items multiply the base productivity. In oil refinery's case the base productivity is just set to be 100% at one oil well, as the number of oil wells varies, while with the animal farms there is always the set number of pastures that produces the "normal" base productivity (e.g. 5 for the pig farm and 4 for the old world cattle farm). So the number just looks bigger, but the logic is exactly the same. Regardless of the items used, an oil refinery with 4 oil wells always produces 33% more oil than one with 3 oil wells. And just the same a pig farm with 4 pig sties produces 33% more pigs than one with 3 pig sties. In this case, the items increase the base productivity with a factor of 265%, i.e. 365% of 700% is 2555%. A bonus factor of 265% for the plants is quite ordinary during the late game.

    If you'd now change it, you'd penalize many of the existing players, and by a lot. For many, the oil production would go down to a fraction of the previous production. You'd force to build much more oil refineries, as you'd want to only have one refinery per one oil well to maximize the item usefulness, but that would increase the workforce needed by a lot. So no need for a fix; it's not broken. The info card could be better in describing this, though. For instance, separate the base productivity from the others by a line, and then below all the items bonuses give the total bonus, labelled as something like "base productivity multiplier: x3.65".

  • hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    @Synchronos357
    actually you've just proven my point

    consider cattle farm (new world version): 6 pastures max
    if you have e.g. 5, you get 83% base productivity BUT all the bonuses remain UNchanged since they affect the building and not its pastures

    also, if you look in the screenshot and sum the numbers shown, you get 965 and not 2555

    it's a bug not a feature...

    although i agree this i has always been so (probably? maybe before gu14 is was otherwise?)

    "That's how we've always done it," farmers like to say


    but seriously, you have oil problems? i have more oil than i know what to do with... in precisely 3 words: Jörg von Malching!

  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    @hundreAd1800 You didn't seem to get my point, so no, I did not prove your point. All the items multiply the base productivity, they do not add to it. If you have a base productivity of 83% and use a +50% productivity item, you do _not_ get 83 + 50 = 133% productivity. You'd get 83 * 1.5 = 125% productivity. That's just how the oil refineries work as well.

    And no, the items do not apply to the oil wells, they apply to the oil refinery. The base productivity of the oil refinery is just affected by the number of oil wells it has.

  • SerikaG
    ubisoft:x-posts, 14

    This is because unlike usual production buildings, oil works a different way where refinery are NOT producing anything and the well are the real one who produce oil.Refinery are only use for restore ,show productivity and leave something that can be buff by the union.
    Besides, if you change the caculate process and make it simply count by add, you can still build multi refinery to achieve the same result, but with more lands.There is no reason to change.

  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    @SerikaG oil refinery is the building that's doing the actual production. It's the one that has the production cycle and the one you would pause to stop production. The oil wells themselves do not have a production cycle. The refinery's cycle length is just determined by the number of oil wells it has. This is no different from the animal farms, whose cycle length is determined by the number of pastures they have around them.

    if you change the caculate process and make it simply count by add, you can still build multi refinery to achieve the same result, but with more lands

    Yes, but it would also heavily increase the number of workforce required.

    There is no reason to change.

    This I agree on.

  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    Let me try to clarify with an example. I'll choose some simple numbers for clarity. Let's consider an animal farm, which normally would have 4 pastures (e.g a cattle farm), and an oil refinery which has 4 oil well slots in its range. And then I would have two +50% production items I could use for both of those, giving +100% production.

    Then all of these are true:

    • An animal farm with 4 pastures would produce 2x the goods an animal farm with 2 pastures would.
    • An animal farm with 2 pastures and +100% production items would produce 2x the goods an animal farm with 2 pastures would.
    • An animal farm with 4 pastures would produce the same amount of goods that an animal farm with 2 pastures and +100% production items would.
    • An animal farm with 4 pastures would produce 4x the goods an animal farm with 2 pastures, without items, would.


    And just as equally all these are true for the oil refinery:

    • An oil refinery with 4 wells would produce 2x the goods an oil refinery with 2 wells would.
    • An oil refinery with 2 wells and +100% production items would produce 2x the goods an oil refinery with 2 wells would.
    • An oil refinery with 4 wells would produce the same amount of goods that an oil refinery with 2 wells and +100% production items would.
    • An oil refinery with 4 wells would produce 4x the goods an oil refinery with 2 wells, without items, would.


    The only difference is that the shown base production on an animal farm with 2 pastures is 50% and with 4 pastures 100%, while the oil refinery would show 200% base production with 2 oil wells and 400% with 4 oil wells. The ratios and the logic are exactly the same.

    And let me just add that this is the logic how it has actually always worked. Not after GU14, but always.

  • Asterix201252
    ubisoft:x-posts, 526

    @Synchronos357

    I agree. It has always worked like this. I see abolutely no reason to change it.

  • hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    almost all producers have base productivity max 100% (other than oil and gas)
    BUT when you have insanely high base productivity (e.g., think 1 refinery with 22 oil wells), that usual bonus logic completely breaks down
    changing it would be a problem not so much for oil, which is abundant, but for arctic gas (although gu15 apparently makes it easier to produce it)
    sure you can build more producers, but this at least necessitates a "penalty" in that you'd require more workforce (again, problem mainly in the arctic)

  • Asterix201252
    ubisoft:x-posts, 526

    @hundreAd1800
    Why would you treat Gas Wells differently to Oil Wells? They are essentially exactly the same thing, just providing a different commodity. Certainly any logic applied to boosting them has to be the same. Maybe I could cope without the big boosts to Oil, but my entire game strategy of using Gas Power Stations in Cape Trelawney along with gas use in Iron Tower and Restaurants etc would be absolutely wrecked if your idea was applied to gas. Even with Oil if it was applied to a game in progress I would have to spend hours re-organising my Oil Wells.

    It ain't broke, why try to fix it.

  • hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    @Asterix201252
    oil and gas should certainly have the same logic applied to them
    simply an observation that gas is much less abundant and will thus be a serious problem if mechanics are modified (oil i could easily work around with little effort if need be)
    and e.g. 22 oil wells will result in 8030% (!) productivity... consider explosions... poor thing will spend more time in pieces that in operation 😉
    finally, not every good type has enough availability... i have one single island whose lifestyle demand for bear furs is 23, whereas my entire production is 19... which is actually quite a lot (pre-gu15 mechanics, true, but i still doubt i could push it past 40 regardless of anything, not while having settled all 4 plateaus and keeping all needs fulfilled 100%)
    i'm not saying this should necessarily be changed (and probably won't) but someone should certainly give this some serious thought, which they most likely didn't originally; and don't forget a VERY simple solution will be to readjust the demand accordingly to the decrease in supply

  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    @hundreAd1800 it is true that with the mastery of nature research items you can create really, really productive single oil refineries. I still wouldn't change the base logic of how the items apply to the oil refineries, but instead impose a limit to how many oil wells a single refinery can have, for example a maximum of 6. That would move them even closer to how the farms work.

  • hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    @Synchronos357
    that's a good idea, i'm just not sure the game mechanics support it
    certainly cattle farm etc. has field limit, but using that will result in the base productivity decreasing if you don't have enough oil/gas wells in range
    reducing demand correspondingly by a factor of 2-3 might be simpler?

  • Synchronos357
    ubisoft:x-posts, 56

    @hundreAd1800 the base productivity decreases anyway if you have fewer oil wells in the range; that's how the mechanics work even now, this wouldn't change if you just imposed a maximum number to the oil wells. And the maximum doesn't need to mean that the new "baseline" base productivity for the oil refineries would be set at 100% with 6 oil wells. It can just as well still be 100% at 1 oil well. Note that this percentage is just an indicator in the UI. For the gameplay it only matters that an oil refinery with 1 oil well produces oil 4 t/min and for one with 6 oil wells it's 24 t/min (without items or other bonuses). This wouldn't need to change in any way. I just think that it makes more sense for the player to indicate that the refinery doesn't have any set "lower limit" where the production is "lacking". For the animal farms it's just there to hint the player that they could get more production by building some more pastures.

    But I don't mind if I would still be able to just build one super-refinery (that would indeed explode every few minuters), as the game is extremely easy at that point anyway. Or at least the challenges aren't in that area at that point.

  • Macs1209
    ubisoft:x-posts, 124

    @Synchronos357 Best is super refineries can explode even paused. I use 12 oil wells with 150% boost, total 3000% productivity. If you deploy fire station within 9 tile range (direct line length between the refinery geometrial center and fire station center point), it decrease the explosion chance. My refinery surrounded by 16 fire station and the oil wells placed outside the fire stations in an arc, this amount eliminate the fire and explosion chance, it never explode or catch fire.

  • hundreAd1800
    Original poster ubisoft:x-posts, 322

    @Macs1209
    all events are prevented if you build in an island with no population (only virtual)

  • Macs1209
    ubisoft:x-posts, 124

    @hundreAd1800 I know this, this is why I focus on "headless" islands. Somehow Hacienda range depend on real population, virtual and workforce share not affect Hacienda range. Fire station should get some incidentinfluencer boost, because the introduced tractors, fertilizers and silos highly increase the chance.

  • Ubi-Thrupney
    Ubisoft Support Staff ubisoft:x-posts, 3343

    Howdy all! Thanks for the continued discourse on this - it's all pretty interesting stuff for an Anno novice like myself 🙂

    Our teams have indeed advised that this is intended behaviour. They've pointed out to me that moving oil wells around into such an arrangement is only possible via a research institute, so it's not really a base-game situation, and therefore the high bonus is justified.

    I'll be keen to hear any further thoughts on this!

    official-response

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