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  • ValtyrNine
    87 posts

    @chevy_man2010 The combat in both Origins and Odyssey were worse in almost every way. The only combat-related things Odyssey has superiority on it was the ability to use weapons on horseback and the return of decent and interesting naval combat. Odyssey has some of the poorest enemy scaling in any game I've ever played with enemies that are on the same level as you taking multiple minutes to kill if you play on Nightmare, even using the best gear you can get for your level for most of the game. It led to me not even wanting to engage in combat at all the vast majority of the time, and that's aside from the borderline invisible attack indicators (a near-translucent thin white gleam? Really?), the combat having zero tactile feeling since with the way the enemy reacts you might as well be slashing them to death with a pair of nail clippers instead of a sword, and extremely bloated enemy damage/health to the point that a lot of the time it's easier to just run away and come back for an assassination over and over. Using an assassination, running away, and repeating isn't "combat", it's exploiting the AI. The only feasible solution to not having to do that is to just not play the game on Nightmare... which begs the question why it's in the game if the combat wasn't balanced for it (a recurring theme in Assassin's Creed games).

    The worst thing about parrying in Origins/Odyssey is that whoever was in charge of designing the controls seemed to have somehow entirely forgotten that it's possible to making parrying a one-button instant command like in the older games. Pressing R1+L1 or holding down L1 and mashing O for a parry were downright idiotic design decisions. There's nothing intuitive about mashing two buttons together at the same time that you already use regularly for other functions for one of the most vital combat controls. It should have been press a single button for a parry and that's it, just like it had always been before that. There is a reason EVERY other game that focuses heavily on reactionary combat makes parrying/dodging/any type of counter a one-button command, like every Fromsoft game (Sekiro is probably the epitome of well-designed defensive gameplay), The Surge games, Hollow Knight (which combines the attack button with parry so you need only time your attacks, perfect intuitive design), the Arkham series, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, etc. There is an absolute glut in games that do action combat VERY well out there and for whatever reason Ubi decided to not learn from any of them when making Odyssey and came up with the bizarre idea to make parrying R1+L1 in what seems to be a "trying to fix something that wasn't broken" solution. At least they finally returned to sanity in Valhalla and made parrying a simple L1 press and dodging either tap or long hold like every other action combat game that exists. The combat system and controls are actually very similar to Sekiro, just far more arcade-like and more floaty (but not even remotely as floaty as Odyssey's awful combat).

    It's quite easy in Valhalla to go into zones that are much higher level than you are even on Very Hard and fare pretty well since the general enemy health pools aren't nearly as bloated, in contrast to Odyssey where you would just straight up die because a random, emaciated slave archer that's almost completely naked besides a loincloth and tabard wielding a bow made out of fire kindling can one-shot you purely by virtue of having a bigger number over his head than you do. Plus, Valhalla's combat is much more tactile with noticeable enemy reactions to your hits and attacks, much easier reads (the bright YELLOW flash for an attack warning is MUCH better than Odyssey's white flash since you can actually see it, greatly improved projectile warnings as well), better animations for enemies all-around where attacks look like they have some wind-up and weight to them. One of the best examples is the first of Ragnar's drengr in Norway, who actually changes stances and adjusts his weapons depending on what his next attack will be so you can read him and back off when you need to, making it a fun fight where you feel like you're learning the enemy once you realize his unavoidable, instant perilous attack can actually be avoided by watching him. In contrast to Odyssey's animations where enemies might as well be T-posing all the time because their reads boil down to a white or red glow.

    Not to say Valhalla's combat isn't without flaws (from the point of view of Very Hard difficulty). The biggest flaws are mostly in the balance department and how some fights seem to have been poorly QA'd, if even QA'd at all. The general balance is better than Odyssey's, but the boss fight balance has some serious issues in some cases. Nearly every boss in the game can one-shot you on Very Hard, which makes the emergency heal skill basically a requirement. Some other skills are probably a bit overpowered, like the perfect dodge skill that slows down time or missile reversal which is just unbelievably strong and abusable (a common theme since "just the bow" is also extremely strong with the double arrow skill). Some of the abilities are overtly better than others, mainly Kick of Tyr since it gives you instant i-frames for a considerable amount of time and can interrupt virtually any attack, Focus of the Nornir because it's the bow.. but infinite, and the Fire/Poison melee attacks are basically indispensable against bosses on Very Hard. Many fundamental mechanics of the game fly out the window against certain enemies, most specifically Skirmishers, Murderers, Sleekits, Men-at-Arms, Bannerets, and Madmen who all have extreme amounts of i-frames in some cases, which forces you to wait on them to attack you or abuse a particular other weapon (the bow, which might as well be a weapon of mass destruction). The issue with Murderers/Sleekits is that they are artificially hard to kill by virtue of major i-frames most of the time and simply end up taking far longer to kill than they should, not that they're difficult. Madmen are probably the most annoying because they can spam a multi-hit attack that can be parried but it has no tell or obvious timing and hits for [censored] LOAD of damage for reasons that are beyond me, and also gives them i-frames during the attack with parrying being the only counter unless you use the bow. Certain bosses are glitchy as hell and clearly not made for the combat system, mostly a specific giant dog and the legendary bear fights (except for Steinbjorn which is possibly far easier than it should be), but there are a couple other bosses that throw a lot of the combat mechanics out of the window because they have no weak-points, can't be parried, or can heal themselves for insane amounts. Certain other bosses are great fun to fight and let you practice mastery over the combat system instead, particularly a certain god, and the Daughters of Lerion.

    I think the main lesson Ubi still hasn't learned is that they need to balance the combat around the hardest difficulty, though. It's been an issue for a long time with the newer, RPG-style games. I was able to get through Valhalla in the first playthrough exclusively on Very Hard at least, but I couldn't do that in Odyssey or Origin due to the "RPG ELEMENTS™" turning it into a masochistic slog.

  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @valtyrnine I can absolutely +1 that comment 🙂

  • FFaFFaNN
    7 posts

    @thegodlybacon

    Man,

    Even in Valhalla we have gods!Odin is equal to Zeus....
    Valhalla is a stepdown from Odyssey in story, abilities, graphics, gear, boss battle, fantasy. This was a trilogy of fantasy..so..put fantasy in the gameWe have Fenrir but Odin (Havi) and the rest of the Norse Gods are thrash?/Look at the Curse of The Pharaohs and Atlantis...So beautiful dlcs...
    Ubi in 2020 copy the Witcher to make settlement like B&W....
    I like Valhalla but at 50% progress i'm burning and i lost interest becasue i do raids only for those 20 pieces of whatever they are, i do not like the gear system...trash....They have 2 years to make a strong game for Norse saga...
    What to buy from store?Nothing?To much money for nothing...why to search for opals??for nothing...
    Look at Odyssey in store and see what pack they have...
    So...the dev need to make to much changes to make a good game.Mount....what mount?Who have stamina but in England with so many hills he cant move properily??

    Pls dev...do somenthing right now if u do mot loose many of us to not want to buy the dlcs....even the game...Now im o u+ cuz i read all forums and feedbacks and i playing but im lost intereset in Asgard after 1 mission...Norse mithology trashed here....

  • Chevy_man2010
    83 posts

    @valtyrnine

    I respect your opinion but I think Valhalla is horrible & combat is crap. Its the worse game I've ever played & I've been gaming for over 30 yrs since the Atari.
    Parrying in the game is a joke. Trying to dodge is horrible cause of the stamina bar. Not to mention all the bugs & glitches.
    I tried to fight a level 90 zealot knight at level 230 & barely got him down to 50% health, had to run away cause I was about to die. At my level that should have been a easier fight. Not saying I dont mind a challenge but when I level up & still struggling to do damage we got problems.
    Same goes for mad witches.

    I could make a list that could go on for 2 or more pages of everything wrong with this game.

    They did do a few things better. But overall its a train wreck, it wasn't worth the 130 bucks I paid for it. If you look at 90% of the threads on here you'll see im not the only one that says this.

    Im glad you like it, to each their own. I prefer Odyssey. It was more fun.

  • ValtyrNine
    87 posts

    @chevy_man2010 I can see where you're coming from because initially I felt similarly about the parrying being poorly executed and maybe even disjointed with the actual animations. After I played for around 10-15 hours I had gotten the muscle memory down, though. Sometimes I still got brutalized by Pikemen or wolves, but there was a time where I thought Pikemen were poorly designed since they can stagger and counter you, until I learned to just hit them and then dodge for their opening. The whole game is like that, for every enemy. It's one massive exercise in muscle memory. After 110 hours in the game, I still can't correctly parry Madmen, though, and Zealots with greatswords are absolutely some of the worst designed enemies in the game because their parry window is completely unintuitive. The parry system is not without flaw, but a lot of the "flaws" I see called out by people are mistaken timings or animations.

    You run out of stamina from dodging because you aren't getting light attacks in to recover stamina. There is a definite rhythm to the combat where you're meant to trade blows with enemies rather than dodging a lot (like in Odyssey). You directly recover stamina from dealing damage to enemies, so the game encourages you to be aggressive rather than defensive. The devs clearly had in mind a rhythmic flow of combat so that the player can never just dodge forever, which is a good thing. The more aggressive you are, the more likely you are to keep enemies off balance too, and you effectively have infinite stamina if you're just constantly attacking an enemy instead of allowing them to be the aggressor. Personally I never had issues with stamina in any part of the game except during a specific fight with a large dog.

    The level 90 Zealot is a greatsword one, I had to look him up to double check. Like I mentioned earlier, the greatsword Zealots are capable of doing a MASSIVE amount of damage to you very quickly because their parry timing is extremely tight and fast. One of the enemies I would consider to be poorly designed. The best way to deal with them in the future is to simply use Charged Shot to their head while they're on their horse and then as many more times as you need to kill them. They shouldn't live through more than 3 or 4 shots, even on very hard, unless you are very underleveled. I'm pretty sure I abused Cola in particular by actually kicking him off the bridge near where he spawns and then stomping him combined with the fall damage, though. I killed him in the river before he could fight back on very hard at about level ~190. It's worth it to consider your environments when fighting difficult enemies because there's typically nothing stopping you from kicking an enemy off a high building or cliff in a lot of places, as long as you have Kick of Tyr or Rush and Bash.

    I definitely would not consider this game worth $130 in the state it released in either. It was barely worth the $60 "basic" price since we got a glorified QA test it seemed. I'm hoping Ubi makes up for it in the long run but for now I've uninstalled the game and moved on. The microtransactions were just salt in the wound for that one too.

  • Chevy_man2010
    83 posts

    @valtyrnine

    I'll give it a try. Just with all the crap the game is doing it gets frustrating. I play nothing but RPGs like Witcher, just finished Spiderman Miles Morales, & I used to play final fantasy. As well as dragon age.

    So I know a bit about mechanics, armour, weapons, gear weight, & etc. just this game is far from anything I've seen before with playstyle in combat & leveling.
    Cause if I loved Odyssey but if you ask me the best RPG I've ever played was Witcher 3 Wild Hunt.
    Odyssey reminded me alot of that in someways.

  • longjohn119
    609 posts
    @thegodlybacon

    Man,

    Even in Valhalla we have gods!Odin is equal to Zeus....
    Valhalla is a stepdown from Odyssey in story, abilities, graphics, gear, boss battle, fantasy. This was a trilogy of fantasy..so..put fantasy in the gameWe have Fenrir but Odin (Havi) and the rest of the Norse Gods are thrash?/Look at the Curse of The Pharaohs and Atlantis...So beautiful dlcs...
    Ubi in 2020 copy the Witcher to make settlement like B&W....
    I like Valhalla but at 50% progress i'm burning and i lost interest becasue i do raids only for those 20 pieces of whatever they are, i do not like the gear system...trash....They have 2 years to make a strong game for Norse saga...
    What to buy from store?Nothing?To much money for nothing...why to search for opals??for nothing...
    Look at Odyssey in store and see what pack they have...
    So...the dev need to make to much changes to make a good game.Mount....what mount?Who have stamina but in England with so many hills he cant move properily??

    Pls dev...do somenthing right now if u do mot loose many of us to not want to buy the dlcs....even the game...Now im o u+ cuz i read all forums and feedbacks and i playing but im lost intereset in Asgard after 1 mission...Norse mithology trashed here....

    Have you seen this video of a game by some South Koreans coming out sometime in 2021 ...... It looks absolutely amazing

  • LaMOi
    88 posts

    I like the greater immersion myself.

    I did not like the loot system in Odyssey. Rewards felt hollow. Slight variations of stats for the same armour.... snooze fest.

    also I like having to hide dead bodies. Not that you need to in Valhalla, the AI is awful. Zero consequence.

    secondly why do people want to Mark every damn thing ?? First thing I did was to turn the HUD off! Way more immersive. Stealth is easy anyway given how dumb the AI is.

  • Cell1e
    174 posts
    @thegodlybacon

    Man,

    Even in Valhalla we have gods!Odin is equal to Zeus....
    Valhalla is a stepdown from Odyssey in story, abilities, graphics, gear, boss battle, fantasy. This was a trilogy of fantasy..so..put fantasy in the gameWe have Fenrir but Odin (Havi) and the rest of the Norse Gods are thrash?/Look at the Curse of The Pharaohs and Atlantis...So beautiful dlcs...
    Ubi in 2020 copy the Witcher to make settlement like B&W....
    I like Valhalla but at 50% progress i'm burning and i lost interest becasue i do raids only for those 20 pieces of whatever they are, i do not like the gear system...trash....They have 2 years to make a strong game for Norse saga...
    What to buy from store?Nothing?To much money for nothing...why to search for opals??for nothing...
    Look at Odyssey in store and see what pack they have...
    So...the dev need to make to much changes to make a good game.Mount....what mount?Who have stamina but in England with so many hills he cant move properily??

    Pls dev...do somenthing right now if u do mot loose many of us to not want to buy the dlcs....even the game...Now im o u+ cuz i read all forums and feedbacks and i playing but im lost intereset in Asgard after 1 mission...Norse mithology trashed here....


    Yeah I thought Asgard and Jotunheim were poorly executed, beautiful empty boring spaces with ok quest lines..I didnt particularly like the quests as I wasn't playing 'my character' but it would have been more enjoyable if there were lovely little stashes of loot and special asguard armours and weapons to find. I didnt find myself caring one bit about the people and places I visited there/. I did enjoy the lovely vistas and views and the other little quest in Vinland, the little armour there was so cute but strangely my character wasnt allowed to keep it and travelled back naked to England whereupon she quickly found her own stuff and put them on. 🙄

  • joshwalla
    2 posts

    @droid8apple I'm 44% in the title. I was going to do completionist. Now I'm done with Ubisoft. I adored Origins and Odyssey, but I didn't sign up to pay money for a beta. Absolute mess at the moment.

    Caveat emptor. I guess I simply trusted that Ubisoft would sell me a finished product. I went to the seer, and was not warned I'd be shipped off to a completely different title, as a different protagonist. At least in Odyssey, I knew that I was off to Atlantis and the like - this offered no warning. So, with all the crashes, sheer mass to completing the map, and overwhelming glitching (lifeless, over-compressed audio, missing key in Lunden, all the force quits) I think it's time to get back to ye olde #forzathon. At least it doesn't bug out. Thus concludes my continued support of Montreal's finest.

    What happened, guys?

    When did I become a guinea pig?

    F for effort.

    </divorceprecedings>

  • DaelosTheCat
    167 posts

    I noticed how they dumbed down AI even further. In Odyssey if you shot at an enemy and killed them, their friends would hide and then charge the position you shot their friend from. In Valhalla you can hide on a building and successfully shoot all the guards one by one without them ever bothering to look up or investigate your position. This makes gameplay way too easy.

  • uFamas
    25 posts

    @daelosthecat Hah yea, sit on a high rooftop and shoot one, the others all come inspect the dead body but dont bother to look up and from there on you just headshot them one by one.
    Their behavior makes me think you are out of aggro range or something.

  • FylkirPanzer
    180 posts

    @daelosthecat Now that I think of it I kinda miss how if you'd use hit and run tactics in Odyssey, the AI would start disposing of their friends corpses in a hole somewhere lol. I wish that was in this, like they just chuck their friends into a well or a designated corpses area. Could even have it be faction specific, like Saxons would pray for their fallen, and the Norse would tell tales of their fallen companion, etc. Just more immersion imo.

  • DaelosTheCat
    167 posts

    @fylkirpanzer

    Yeah, that's one more thing that I actually liked in Origins and Odyssey that is missing from Valhalla. Enemies just don't bother moving corpses and disposing of them.

  • FFaFFaNN
    7 posts

    @longjohn119

    No. Tx for this.But i don't like MMO's....i saw that in this times childs likes to play easy games who shot this, jump here an there and that's it..
    I like story games with..good combat mechnincs, story and specially RPG's...Valhalla was my biggest disapointment so far.....Look, they bring here settlement but Witcher gave this in B&W...Ubi tries to copy CDPR but they cannot....They dont have theirs shareholders wich are even president and co directors.....
    So, do you know that CDPR after Cyberpunk will make another Witcher story?Why?Cu their games was GOAT in RPG genre.

    I'm glad that i din't buy Valhalla Ultimate Edition....And for the store, they want me to buy with 20 euro one pack??WTH????3 packs cost as much as a standard edition (an entire game).This is not a free MMO wich make money from microtransactions.....

    And as conclusion..i reinstalled Odyssey :))))
    Wow..that combat mechanics...how fluid....In my opinion, Valhalla was the worst of this trilogy prequels from AC series (mythological series).

  • TheCosmicBob
    73 posts

    @ufamas I did this for the first time in Valhalla the other day. I sat on a roof (of a one storey building) and shot guards until I ran out of arrows. They came to look at the bodies, but not one of them looked up. I was amazed because the first couple of arrows I would duck behind the roof peak to hide. But no one looked.

  • FylkirPanzer
    180 posts

    @thecosmicbob The AI is really hit or miss, no pun intended, when it comes to using bows from rooftops or other high places. Sometimes, they'll finally get the gears turning in their AI brains that I'm shooting at them from a high place and try to at least climb up to get me. But most of the time they'll just stand around as their friends die.

  • longjohn119
    609 posts

    @fylkirpanzer
    I used to love luring the Mercs onto a rooftop in Odyssey .... as soon as they got to the base I'd run to the other end, wait until they popped over the edge and then blast them off the building .... I'd use that technique a lot early in the game before I killed enough Cultists to get a level 3 Devastating Shot

    Brains are what wins wars and battles, not brawn ......

  • FylkirPanzer
    180 posts

    @longjohn119 It was always satisfying alerting a fortress and get a bunch of enemies on a roof, then using Ring of Chaos to blast them all in different directions haha.

  • longjohn119
    609 posts
    @longjohn119 It was always satisfying alerting a fortress and get a bunch of enemies on a roof, then using Ring of Chaos to blast them all in different directions haha.

    That works really good for ship boarding too although I usually shoot off a couple of poison multishots to soften up the crew for my gals and I go straight to the highest level guy and hit him with a Fury of the Bloodline to recharge my adrenaline (Plus you are invincible and take no damage), apply some poison to my sword and hit them with an overpower attack with my sword and see if I can sling them off the deck

    Something like this .....

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