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  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @duskdragon56496

    Yup. I did defend Odyssey alot and I have 500+ hours in that game. And I was pretty much done with Odyssey by mid 2019.
    After that I played Division 2 for close to 2000 hours. Actually made tons of one shot builds there too. Division is almost the same type looter game as Odyssey.

    I still think that Odyssey was a great game and I really liked it. And the reason I defended Odyssey was because at the time the idea was a change for AC games and hence I welcomed it. The second reason I defended was because the gear system was the core mechanic of the game which just couldn't be changed. I made all those one shots builds so that the game could feel like what Valhalla plays like right now i.e one shot assassination, enemies not being spongy.

    Having said the above, I made this post a while back, when I saw tons and tons of posts about people criticizing the 'gear system' in this game. The post wasn't really about criticizing Odyssey, but rather a reactive post sharing my view on the gear system in Valhalla.

    I still think that the story in Odyssey was more engaging. But the mysteries in Valhalla are miles better than side quests in Odyssey. I prefer the gear system in Valhalla (yes I can't make any builds) but this means that more people can now get in and enjoy the game. The naval, weekly ships and tales of greece were far better in Odyssey compared to the buggy mess the Yule event was. Overall I liked both games and own day 1 Gold Editions for both. Just because i am admiring one aspect of Valhalla doesn't mean that I think Odyssey was crap.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @show_stoppa

    So your saying Valhalla is the better game cos of how over simplified it is and thus a broader audience gets to play it?
    Dont most ppl have internet though, if ppl are struggling with something surely they can look for a build on the internet.

    Dont know about you, but if a game is too easy (such as valhalla) it gets boring fast. To me this is not a cool feature.
    Compared to odyssey valhalla is much easier, so maybe the next game has no loot and just an easy setting to appeal to more ppl?

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @asgardian02 Nope. I am saying that the hate for Valhalla for not having loads and loads of unusable loot, is unjustified. Having said that, there is definitely a need for improvement in alot of things related to gear system in Valhalla.

    First and foremost, the numbers in Valhalla are completely unintuitive. There should be a better explanation of what each number means, i.e I have a crit chance of 152 on my dagger. What does that even mean.

    Second, there should be some utility explanation of different attributes in the game. i.e what is the difference between Armor, Health and Evasion. In which situation should a person prefer one over the other.

    Third, (Odyssey has the same issue which Valhalla reduced but didnt completely fix), there should be venues for spec'ing into different things as opposed to just spec'ing into crit chance and health restore perks.

    My point is, if we keep complaining about not getting tons and tons of loot which will get deconstructed at the end of the day, we wont move forward with asking the right questions. As I said before, the gear system of the game is a 'core system', which can't be changed. So the best thing to do is figure out how to better utilize and make sense of the current system.

    One major issue that alot of people had with Odyssey was that it wasn't really an AC game. i.e you couldnt play as an assassin because you couldnt one hit assassinate people. Valhalla mitigated that issue with the timed-event assassination ability and just plain one hit assassination game-play option.

    When I first started making those one-shot builds I had an idea that crit chance and crit damage was 'kind of' OP and game breaking. As the level cap increased from 50 to 70 to 99 and masteries, the increases in values of crit chance and crit damage completely broke the system. And that is when I stopped making more builds as it stopped feeling rewarding.

    As for the amount of gears, as i have said before, Valhalla needs to have more gearsets. I am completely on board with that. But I also think that the idea about having fixed gears is nice as it stops the game from breaking, like Odyssey did.

    Another thing that I dont see people mentioning is the quests related to getting some cool ISU items. Like the sword, hammer, and one piece of gear of thor. All those quests and puzzles are really nice and I feel like devs should add more of such things in the game. Because those, to me alteast, feel rewarding.

    And as I have said before, one game is not better than the other. Both games have some really nice things, and others which were not so nice.

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @max18400 I agree on that. Valhalla needed more time in play testing and the fact that they actually pushed the release date to an early date is just plainly unacceptable. You can't blame COVID when you are actually releasing the game before actual release date. The Yule festival was probably the worst post-lauch content I have ever played. It was totally unplayable.

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @imaginaryruins

    It seems like a typical trend where whenever a new AC is released, the forum is flooded with negative feedback. And that kind of makes sense as most people who enjoy the game spend time playing the game as opposed to spending time on the forum sharing what they didnt like.

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @show_stoppa My Alexios is definitely not OP, like at all, unless he uses that Ares Madness skill, or whatever it's called, which I hardly ever use. He's decent, but OP is something else. He even needs multiple hits to take out broom-wielding peasants, and dies in 1-2 hits if I don't pay attention for a moment. In Valhalla, after a certain point, my Eivor was definitely OP - basically everyone's is because you max out all the skill trees, and that's irrespective of cracking the system to make some nifty build. Eivor can one shot with the bow, rush into melee and defeat a ton of enemies, AND sneak around 1-hit backstabbing people. Alexios can 1-hit assassinate most enemies, takes much longer to take people out in melee, and sucks with a bow. This is without considering abilities in both games.

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @kreutzgang
    I get what you are saying. And that makes total sense. Valhalla needs to add more difficulty in the game. i.e not make enemies spongier but make you more prone to damage and deal more damage to you. There are some good chunk of issues with AI too where the AI just isn't very aggressive or responsive. These things definitely need improvement and balancing in Valhalla, but can be fixed as the gears are fixed in the game.

    In contrast to this, the OP values to crit chance, crit damage, chance to ignore half damage and mele resistance virtually made it impossible to correctly balance the game. That is why half the player base was one-shotting everything while the other half was complaining about enemy sponges. If you actually optimize your build in Odyssey with the above things, you really would end up having an unkillable, one-shotting Alexios, which isnt possible in Valhalla.

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @show_stoppa point me to one of your builds then, and I'll give it a go (for Alexios)

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @kreutzgang
    This is from march 2019 and older. I stopped after this. People have made much more potent builds now based on these ideas.
    Warrior (nightmare difficulty):


    Hybrid assassin warrior (nightmare difficulty):

    Hybrid assassin hunter (nightmare difficulty):

  • DuskDragon56496
    367 posts

    Don't you think people have a right to be angry at Ubisoft? They condition players to have lots of good stuff in Odyssey and even Origins by comparison then Valhalla comes along and we get nothing! Not even a replayable game. Hardly anything in Valhalla is fixed but the helix store keeps chugging along nicely. I personally have lost an entire game of 134 hours to data corrupt and that wasn't the only time. Yet when the patch comes along very little is fixed,The Yule festival with rehashed hunter armor brought even more bugs into the mix which Ubisoft didn't even bother to address, only figuring that when it was over the bugs would go away too. I think people are kinda getting sick and tired of having to reload old saves to salvage their game.
    Your argument is it's nice not to have so much armor to sift through, mine is that's how you build a character, not have a generic one created for you. The armor in this game is laughable and lackluster at best, and there are no rewards to speak of No reason whatsoever to even explore,because there's nothing to search for.Hell there's not even a purpose in killing the zealots other than the 3 tablets they have.Yes I will agree that it's a pretty world, but there's nothing to keep the people playing,nothing to keep them interested...right now the game is dead, the only thing keeping it going are the people in the "can we solve this mystery thread"They've kept people interested in searching but Ubisoft can't even be bothered to acknowledge whether there's anything to search for.
    It's not just the game either, it's Ubisofts crap attitude toward the players, the lack of interest in fixing bugs, the lack of a dam response to anything! When I bought this game I was expecting a game at least as good as Odyssey and that was my mistake I'll admit that, we all expected caviar and got tuna fish, but I'll never make the mistake of buying an ultimate edition again.People's anger toward this game and Ubisoft is well justified, people aren't just sitting on here complaining as you and imaginary ruins are suggesting, we're here because of the terrible gaming experiences we've had to endure trying to play this sorry lemon,through all the gaming time we've lost, through all the bugs and reloads we've had to do.No gentleman simple things like a misplaced tree, a floating whale I can live with that, but a broken fishing system from day one, the same bugs over and over and on top of that very little replayability, we're not just nit picking or on here simply to complain...we're here to get Unisoft to do something anout it, why? I have 140 reasons!!!

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @duskdragon56496
    I agree what you are saying and I have clearly stated that Ubisoft released the game without play testing properly. There are tons of issues.
    But I created this post specifically in regards to the gear system.
    I am sorry you lost the data. That is completely unacceptable loosing so much playtime. In regards to specifically this, I think the online save is a nice feature but it could be expanded upon much more so that people have some way to fix the mess created by a barely play tested game.

  • DuskDragon56496
    367 posts

    @show_stoppa You may have been talking about the gear system but you also discussed peoples complaints toward the game which you regarded as "unjustified"...sorry I was checking something and pushed it through incomplete, I don't disagree with you that the loot sysrem was the basis of your argument but you touched on other things as well

  • DuskDragon56496
    367 posts

    I completely agrre with that, we were all the beta testers for Valhalla

  • AnimusLover
    76 posts

    I completely disagree. It’s just a hodgepodge of other, better games and none of it quite comes together in the end. Comparing it with its predecessor in terms of the loot system is a little unfair. In Odyssey it was fun to hunt perfect purples that suited your playstyle through the various open world activities in order to work towards builds. Valhalla does not have that fun gameplay loop – and that’s absolutely fine, I don’t mind the more streamlined approach (like the older games) but it only seems better by comparison because it’s far less ambitious. Yes, the stats in Odyssey were broken but should its follow-up be praised for throwing out the baby with the bathwater? And unlike Odyssey, Valhalla locks a lot of its best armour sets behind late-game story progression – that is, of course, when it’s not putting them in the Ubisoft store. Yeah, from what I heard the game has become a microtransactions centric nightmare too.

    You mentioned it’s better than the older games and earlier in my post I said that it’s aping a lot of game franchises. Well, that includes its own. It’s trying to be nostalgic by referencing old instalments but the problem is this ancient trilogy was clearly never really conceived with that in mind, hence why the parkour and free running is a mess, the one tailing mission in the game is a joke and the social stealth is pointless because you don’t need to use it.  I replayed Brotherhood recently and it puts the core mechanics of Valhalla to shame. In every mission your stealth or parkour skills are being tested with every level clearly designed with that purpose. The optional constraints change the way you play and actually encourage you to get creative. Go back and replay the Romulus lair side quests and then compare that to the Treasure of Britain mysteries that are trying desperately to emulate it. There’s no contest. 
     
    As for the traditional stealth that you praise, I found it incredibly messy and inconsistent. The enemy A.I is all over the shop and the levels almost feel designed to engage you in open combat at some point in them. The monasteries, for example, are desperately trying to satisfy two playstyle tastes simultaneously and as a result pleases neither. If you go all in on stealth you will eventually be forced to call upon your crew to help you open a door of a building that still contains guards anyway so you can never 100% stealth them. If you go down the raiding route you will have to contend with cramped spaces, annoying environmental obstructions and Barred From The Other Side puzzles right in the middle of the action, killing the momentum in the process. It’s incredibly awkward. Stealth isn’t even needed since combat is so OP you can run in and one-shot everything anyway. Combat is at least enjoyable though (mainly due to the duel wielding) and I agree with Cawatrooper about the flail being badass.
     
    And speaking of “barred from the other side”, I do not agree that the exploration is that great. It could have been special but it’s undermined by the fact that the game just marks everything upon synchronising at viewpoints because the developers are petrified that you’ll miss the wealth of content on display. The only good puzzles in are the animus anomalies because they are…actually puzzles. Barred From The Other Side ones are not puzzles, they’re simply roadblocks to disguise the fact that you’re still doing the basic-[censored] open world routine of hunting down collectibles a decade later – and they’re all virtually the same and not even challenging. It’s trying to be like God War PS4 in this aspect but in that game every puzzle was elaborate and expertly handcrafted. That game also has its own “traditional” collectibles in the form of Odin’s spy ravens but most don’t involve puzzles to obtain, you just need to listen out for their chirping and throw your axe at them. Valhalla locks the most basic of collectibles behind these Barred From The Other Side obstructions, and it’s exhausting considering how big the map is.
     
    Lastly, Show Stoppa, as a poster who is traditionally great at detecting and acknowledging bugs, I’m actually quite surprised you’re letting that slide here. It’s the buggiest game in the series by far to the point that I was never 100% sure if a quest was working as it should whenever it didn’t hold your hand.
     
    I platinumed Valhalla at 150 hours. I’m not saying it’s terrible as a stand-alone but I can’t agree that it’s “good” within the context of the series either and definitely, absolutely nowhere near as good as Odyssey which is still, IMO, one of the best in the series.

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @AnimusLover

    Valhalla locks a lot of its best armour sets behind late-game story progression – that is, of course, when it’s not putting them in the Ubisoft store. Yeah, from what I heard the game has become a microtransactions centric nightmare too.

    Yup the microtransactions are another story and I completely despise them. The whole fiasco about store armosets outnumbering ingame armorsets is just scummy.


    You mentioned it’s better than the older games and earlier in my post I said that it’s aping a lot of game franchises. Well, that includes its own. It’s trying to be nostalgic by referencing old instalments but the problem is this ancient trilogy was clearly never really conceived with that in mind, hence why the parkour and free running is a mess, the one tailing mission in the game is a joke and the social stealth is pointless because you don’t need to use it.  I replayed Brotherhood recently and it puts the core mechanics of Valhalla to shame. In every mission your stealth or parkour skills are being tested with every level clearly designed with that purpose. The optional constraints change the way you play and actually encourage you to get creative. Go back and replay the Romulus lair side quests and then compare that to the Treasure of Britain mysteries that are trying desperately to emulate it. There’s no contest. 

     I think the issue here is that the game tries to account for multiple playstyles and hence it is easier for players to take the straightforward route i.e combat. I remember one of the missions where you had to steal the name of future priest or something, and the carrier of the name was well guarded at all times. The carrier would be out in the streets with body guards in the afternoon and go back to the fort at night. At all times he was guarded. Now there were multiple ways to do this. I actually found a barely noticable way, where the courier would, in the very early morning, for a very brief moment leave the guards and take a small walk outside his room in the castle where you could easily stealth and steal the name without actually killing anyone. This was something I came across by accident and is something which is completely missable. I think, for each mission there are opportunities to do these things, which are barely obvious unless you actually really try to play a very very certain way.

    As for the traditional stealth that you praise, I found it incredibly messy and inconsistent. The enemy A.I is all over the shop and the levels almost feel designed to engage you in open combat at some point in them. The monasteries, for example, are desperately trying to satisfy two playstyle tastes simultaneously and as a result pleases neither. If you go all in on stealth you will eventually be forced to call upon your crew to help you open a door of a building that still contains guards anyway so you can never 100% stealth them.

    Totally agree that the AI is very broken and messy. The engagement of the AI and responsiveness is super weird and that is largely because they didnt bother play testing the game before releasing.

    Stealth isn’t even needed since combat is so OP you can run in and one-shot everything anyway. Combat is at least enjoyable though (mainly due to the duel wielding) and I agree with Cawatrooper about the flail being badass.

    Yup, there definately needs to be a pass on the difficulty levels and balancing, but hopefully (AND THEY SHOULD) fix it. In Odyssey, such a thing wasnt possible

    And speaking of “barred from the other side”, I do not agree that the exploration is that great. It could have been special but it’s undermined by the fact that the game just marks everything upon synchronising at viewpoints because the developers are petrified that you’ll miss the wealth of content on display. The only good puzzles in are the animus anomalies because they are…actually puzzles. Barred From The Other Side ones are not puzzles, they’re simply roadblocks to disguise the fact that you’re still doing the basic-[censored] open world routine of hunting down collectibles a decade later – and they’re all virtually the same and not even challenging. It’s trying to be like God War PS4 in this aspect but in that game every puzzle was elaborate and expertly handcrafted. That game also has its own “traditional” collectibles in the form of Odin’s spy ravens but most don’t involve puzzles to obtain, you just need to listen out for their chirping and throw your axe at them. Valhalla locks the most basic of collectibles behind these Barred From The Other Side obstructions, and it’s exhausting considering how big the map is.

     I have been taking these chests slowly as they arent very rewarding and hence enjoy doing them every now and then.  I have been taking these chests slowly as they arent very rewarding and hence enjoy doing them every now and then. If you like the animus anomally puzzles, you should give fenyx rising a go. That game is entirely based on those things. I kind of like these brainteaser puzzles.

    Lastly, Show Stoppa, as a poster who is traditionally great at detecting and acknowledging bugs, I’m actually quite surprised you’re letting that slide here. It’s the buggiest game in the series by far to the point that I was never 100% sure if a quest was working as it should whenever it didn’t hold your hand.

     This post wasn't about bugs. I have a butt loads of bugs written down somewhere which I just dont have the energy to post given how my experience has been lately with the support. I was able to secure myself a PS5 after beating scalpers, but apparently Ubisoft only transferred a partial set of my trophies to PS5 from PS4 (I had finished the game on PS4 but had a few trophies left). They only way to get those trophies is to do everything including the whole story again, and I am not planning to do that unless there is a NG+. The support just refuses to acknowledge the issue saying that this just 'CANT' be fixed. Basically, 'tough luck, play the game again'. So most likely I wont platinium this game, which will be a first AC game in a long time.
    I made the OG post on 18th Nov when the game was out for only a week. I had much better positive things to say about it back then. Now after all these issues, and the mess the Yule festival was, I dont have that much praise.
    This post was revived after close to 3 months of posting because I dont frequent the forum anymore and actually was just thanking @DreadGrrl for recruting my jomsviking.

    Having said that, Valhalla is a great game. I just wish they hadnt released it in the state it was released in. The core mechanics and everything are in there to make it a great game, but it is just not polished or tested enough.



  • AnimusLover
    76 posts

    @show_stoppa So many of the missions just blur into one another so I cannot recall the one about the priest you’re referring to and seeing as I do not plan on replaying the main game I’m going to take your work for it.
     
    Yep, already platinumed Immortals Fenyx Rising and can’t praise it enough: https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/2310392-The-greatest-Disney-adventure-(Ubisoft-Quebec-please-read-) It was like a breath of fresh air after Valhalla.
     
    That’s unfortunate about your save file transfer. Support has been… “off” this year/last year and it’s not just with Valhalla. Watch Dogs Legion has the same issue. Anyway, I see your point regarding how this thread came about, just thought it was worth throwing in my 2 pence.

  • B00MSIE
    291 posts

    I don't 100% agree, but still a fun comparison

  • TORFINR
    331 posts

    I also prefer looting broken bows, rotten cheeses and leather balls on enemies, it's much better than armors and weapons!
    🤐

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @torfinr

    dont forget: open boxes, emtpy crates, old pillows, yellow feathers, green flowers or yellow flowers.

    Its really what i am craving when killing enemies, such a great loot system...

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @torfinr wooden legs are my favs!

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