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  • AnimusLover
    73 posts

    I completely disagree. It’s just a hodgepodge of other, better games and none of it quite comes together in the end. Comparing it with its predecessor in terms of the loot system is a little unfair. In Odyssey it was fun to hunt perfect purples that suited your playstyle through the various open world activities in order to work towards builds. Valhalla does not have that fun gameplay loop – and that’s absolutely fine, I don’t mind the more streamlined approach (like the older games) but it only seems better by comparison because it’s far less ambitious. Yes, the stats in Odyssey were broken but should its follow-up be praised for throwing out the baby with the bathwater? And unlike Odyssey, Valhalla locks a lot of its best armour sets behind late-game story progression – that is, of course, when it’s not putting them in the Ubisoft store. Yeah, from what I heard the game has become a microtransactions centric nightmare too.

    You mentioned it’s better than the older games and earlier in my post I said that it’s aping a lot of game franchises. Well, that includes its own. It’s trying to be nostalgic by referencing old instalments but the problem is this ancient trilogy was clearly never really conceived with that in mind, hence why the parkour and free running is a mess, the one tailing mission in the game is a joke and the social stealth is pointless because you don’t need to use it.  I replayed Brotherhood recently and it puts the core mechanics of Valhalla to shame. In every mission your stealth or parkour skills are being tested with every level clearly designed with that purpose. The optional constraints change the way you play and actually encourage you to get creative. Go back and replay the Romulus lair side quests and then compare that to the Treasure of Britain mysteries that are trying desperately to emulate it. There’s no contest. 
     
    As for the traditional stealth that you praise, I found it incredibly messy and inconsistent. The enemy A.I is all over the shop and the levels almost feel designed to engage you in open combat at some point in them. The monasteries, for example, are desperately trying to satisfy two playstyle tastes simultaneously and as a result pleases neither. If you go all in on stealth you will eventually be forced to call upon your crew to help you open a door of a building that still contains guards anyway so you can never 100% stealth them. If you go down the raiding route you will have to contend with cramped spaces, annoying environmental obstructions and Barred From The Other Side puzzles right in the middle of the action, killing the momentum in the process. It’s incredibly awkward. Stealth isn’t even needed since combat is so OP you can run in and one-shot everything anyway. Combat is at least enjoyable though (mainly due to the duel wielding) and I agree with Cawatrooper about the flail being badass.
     
    And speaking of “barred from the other side”, I do not agree that the exploration is that great. It could have been special but it’s undermined by the fact that the game just marks everything upon synchronising at viewpoints because the developers are petrified that you’ll miss the wealth of content on display. The only good puzzles in are the animus anomalies because they are…actually puzzles. Barred From The Other Side ones are not puzzles, they’re simply roadblocks to disguise the fact that you’re still doing the basic-[censored] open world routine of hunting down collectibles a decade later – and they’re all virtually the same and not even challenging. It’s trying to be like God War PS4 in this aspect but in that game every puzzle was elaborate and expertly handcrafted. That game also has its own “traditional” collectibles in the form of Odin’s spy ravens but most don’t involve puzzles to obtain, you just need to listen out for their chirping and throw your axe at them. Valhalla locks the most basic of collectibles behind these Barred From The Other Side obstructions, and it’s exhausting considering how big the map is.
     
    Lastly, Show Stoppa, as a poster who is traditionally great at detecting and acknowledging bugs, I’m actually quite surprised you’re letting that slide here. It’s the buggiest game in the series by far to the point that I was never 100% sure if a quest was working as it should whenever it didn’t hold your hand.
     
    I platinumed Valhalla at 150 hours. I’m not saying it’s terrible as a stand-alone but I can’t agree that it’s “good” within the context of the series either and definitely, absolutely nowhere near as good as Odyssey which is still, IMO, one of the best in the series.

  • show_stoppa
    Original poster 40 posts

    @AnimusLover

    Valhalla locks a lot of its best armour sets behind late-game story progression – that is, of course, when it’s not putting them in the Ubisoft store. Yeah, from what I heard the game has become a microtransactions centric nightmare too.

    Yup the microtransactions are another story and I completely despise them. The whole fiasco about store armosets outnumbering ingame armorsets is just scummy.


    You mentioned it’s better than the older games and earlier in my post I said that it’s aping a lot of game franchises. Well, that includes its own. It’s trying to be nostalgic by referencing old instalments but the problem is this ancient trilogy was clearly never really conceived with that in mind, hence why the parkour and free running is a mess, the one tailing mission in the game is a joke and the social stealth is pointless because you don’t need to use it.  I replayed Brotherhood recently and it puts the core mechanics of Valhalla to shame. In every mission your stealth or parkour skills are being tested with every level clearly designed with that purpose. The optional constraints change the way you play and actually encourage you to get creative. Go back and replay the Romulus lair side quests and then compare that to the Treasure of Britain mysteries that are trying desperately to emulate it. There’s no contest. 

     I think the issue here is that the game tries to account for multiple playstyles and hence it is easier for players to take the straightforward route i.e combat. I remember one of the missions where you had to steal the name of future priest or something, and the carrier of the name was well guarded at all times. The carrier would be out in the streets with body guards in the afternoon and go back to the fort at night. At all times he was guarded. Now there were multiple ways to do this. I actually found a barely noticable way, where the courier would, in the very early morning, for a very brief moment leave the guards and take a small walk outside his room in the castle where you could easily stealth and steal the name without actually killing anyone. This was something I came across by accident and is something which is completely missable. I think, for each mission there are opportunities to do these things, which are barely obvious unless you actually really try to play a very very certain way.

    As for the traditional stealth that you praise, I found it incredibly messy and inconsistent. The enemy A.I is all over the shop and the levels almost feel designed to engage you in open combat at some point in them. The monasteries, for example, are desperately trying to satisfy two playstyle tastes simultaneously and as a result pleases neither. If you go all in on stealth you will eventually be forced to call upon your crew to help you open a door of a building that still contains guards anyway so you can never 100% stealth them.

    Totally agree that the AI is very broken and messy. The engagement of the AI and responsiveness is super weird and that is largely because they didnt bother play testing the game before releasing.

    Stealth isn’t even needed since combat is so OP you can run in and one-shot everything anyway. Combat is at least enjoyable though (mainly due to the duel wielding) and I agree with Cawatrooper about the flail being badass.

    Yup, there definately needs to be a pass on the difficulty levels and balancing, but hopefully (AND THEY SHOULD) fix it. In Odyssey, such a thing wasnt possible

    And speaking of “barred from the other side”, I do not agree that the exploration is that great. It could have been special but it’s undermined by the fact that the game just marks everything upon synchronising at viewpoints because the developers are petrified that you’ll miss the wealth of content on display. The only good puzzles in are the animus anomalies because they are…actually puzzles. Barred From The Other Side ones are not puzzles, they’re simply roadblocks to disguise the fact that you’re still doing the basic-[censored] open world routine of hunting down collectibles a decade later – and they’re all virtually the same and not even challenging. It’s trying to be like God War PS4 in this aspect but in that game every puzzle was elaborate and expertly handcrafted. That game also has its own “traditional” collectibles in the form of Odin’s spy ravens but most don’t involve puzzles to obtain, you just need to listen out for their chirping and throw your axe at them. Valhalla locks the most basic of collectibles behind these Barred From The Other Side obstructions, and it’s exhausting considering how big the map is.

     I have been taking these chests slowly as they arent very rewarding and hence enjoy doing them every now and then.  I have been taking these chests slowly as they arent very rewarding and hence enjoy doing them every now and then. If you like the animus anomally puzzles, you should give fenyx rising a go. That game is entirely based on those things. I kind of like these brainteaser puzzles.

    Lastly, Show Stoppa, as a poster who is traditionally great at detecting and acknowledging bugs, I’m actually quite surprised you’re letting that slide here. It’s the buggiest game in the series by far to the point that I was never 100% sure if a quest was working as it should whenever it didn’t hold your hand.

     This post wasn't about bugs. I have a butt loads of bugs written down somewhere which I just dont have the energy to post given how my experience has been lately with the support. I was able to secure myself a PS5 after beating scalpers, but apparently Ubisoft only transferred a partial set of my trophies to PS5 from PS4 (I had finished the game on PS4 but had a few trophies left). They only way to get those trophies is to do everything including the whole story again, and I am not planning to do that unless there is a NG+. The support just refuses to acknowledge the issue saying that this just 'CANT' be fixed. Basically, 'tough luck, play the game again'. So most likely I wont platinium this game, which will be a first AC game in a long time.
    I made the OG post on 18th Nov when the game was out for only a week. I had much better positive things to say about it back then. Now after all these issues, and the mess the Yule festival was, I dont have that much praise.
    This post was revived after close to 3 months of posting because I dont frequent the forum anymore and actually was just thanking @DreadGrrl for recruting my jomsviking.

    Having said that, Valhalla is a great game. I just wish they hadnt released it in the state it was released in. The core mechanics and everything are in there to make it a great game, but it is just not polished or tested enough.



  • AnimusLover
    73 posts

    @show_stoppa So many of the missions just blur into one another so I cannot recall the one about the priest you’re referring to and seeing as I do not plan on replaying the main game I’m going to take your work for it.
     
    Yep, already platinumed Immortals Fenyx Rising and can’t praise it enough: https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/2310392-The-greatest-Disney-adventure-(Ubisoft-Quebec-please-read-) It was like a breath of fresh air after Valhalla.
     
    That’s unfortunate about your save file transfer. Support has been… “off” this year/last year and it’s not just with Valhalla. Watch Dogs Legion has the same issue. Anyway, I see your point regarding how this thread came about, just thought it was worth throwing in my 2 pence.

  • B00MSIE
    265 posts

    I don't 100% agree, but still a fun comparison

  • TORFINR
    320 posts

    I also prefer looting broken bows, rotten cheeses and leather balls on enemies, it's much better than armors and weapons!
    🤐

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @torfinr

    dont forget: open boxes, emtpy crates, old pillows, yellow feathers, green flowers or yellow flowers.

    Its really what i am craving when killing enemies, such a great loot system...

  • kreutzgang
    600 posts

    @torfinr wooden legs are my favs!

  • TORFINR
    320 posts
    such a great loot system...

    They made it for creating a feeling of immersion. When you loot your first old pillow, beyond the wow effect, you say to yourself "now I know what being a viking means".

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @torfinr

    its what resulted for me to stop playing. Killing isnt being rewarded, for killing a civilian you even get punished with death.
    Its a viking game but with a weird sense of morale to it. Apparantly vikings did like to do endless puzzles as well.

    Instead of looting enemies for gear, we get to do endless puzzles for gear...

  • kreutzgang
    600 posts

    @asgardian02 that desync system is terrible since the AI causes the civilians to walk into battles like lemmings. Now if the AI was decent and we actually had to go out of our way to kill them, alright, but the Odyssey system with the wanted meter and civilians actually attacking you rather than acting completely dumb was a lot more immersive than some stupid desync.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @kreutzgang

    Absolutly agree, also the mercenary system added some much needed challenge to the gameplay and more immersion to the entire world

  • B00MSIE
    265 posts

    @TORFINR

    If you have 1000 helmets and 2000 swords, a wooden leg isn't that bad in my opinion. Like the majority I enjoyed the Witcher 3 a lot more then Odyssey. But everyone has his own taste.

    @asgardian02
    @Kreutzgang
    Absolutely agree about the about the strange behaviour of the NPC's. The not killing thing is just a AC thing I think, which I don't mind.

  • TORFINR
    320 posts

    @b00msie The thing that those helmets and armors in Odyssey can be dismantled for resources. Or sold, if you prefer. Choices, once more. There's also the hunt for the perfect piece of equipment, totally absent in Valhalla. And more choices. And the combination of stats is also wider in Odyssey, while almost absent in Valhalla. Even more choices 😉

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @torfinr yup

  • kreutzgang
    600 posts

    @b00msie wouldn't you rather stockpile swords than wooden legs and dirty pillows though? 😄

  • Yesin069
    457 posts

    @b00msie

    I loved the twist that he isn't even trying to compare them.

    I played Odyssey and it was a fun game but didn't fulfill my AC needs. At the end of the day i see the problem in Ubisoft Quebec because they clearly should do another IP's and in Ubisoft because they can't title games properly as spin-offs or would take risks with new IP's.

    Odyssey would have been received much better if they titled it just Odyssey and made the game they wanted to do. They made Immortals directly after so they clearly wanted to make just one game in greek with all thos godly skills and silly (mostly childish) humour.

    I dislike Odyssey and Syndicate and i dislike Ubisoft Quebec because they banned some people on twitter that criticised their game because they didn't see it as an AC.

    This discussion can go on until the end of days but in the end AC fans didn't like Odyssey overall. There are clearly exceptions out there but the true Odyssey lovers often just started playing AC with Origins and want more loot and grind. I don't say all of them but most people that praise Odyssey as the best game ever doesn't understand what AC actually is and where surprised what this new "social stealth" mechanic in Vallhalla is. Here are also day one AC fans that love Odyssey and that is fine but i clearly see Odyssey as as fancy spin-off and won't play any games from Ubisoft Quebec in the future. I don't like their way of trying to make an IP their own with too much changes and i really dislike the way they do humour in games. It is comparable with the forced humour in Watch Dogs 2 and the forced humour in Valhalla's world events. Just don't add too much humour in mostly serious games. Some funny stuff here and there is always great but don't make every third quest a slapstick one ore every world event a comedy.

    I am fine with the way Valhalla is going and they should go on this way and take out more of all the bloat. This would also end in less microtransactions and shorther roadmaps, which should be a plus for us. Longer roadmaps from Ubisoft doesn't mean more content, it just means the same content just stretched around a longer time.

    It also would be better to have just one thread with the Odyssey vs. Valhalla discussion because this is clearly a topic where two armys collide. Everybody should know by now what the streangths and weaknessen of every game are and that no side will ever change their opinion. The Odyssey fans want more loot and the Origins/Valhalla fans want less and more AC focus.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @yesin069

    The thing that you get wrong is that we never said that Odyssey isd best game ever. Far from it in fact, just compared to Valhalla it raises to the top fast.
    While playing Odyssey i wrote down a lot of pointers that i would have wanted they improved.

    For valhalla i really thought they would continue this upward spiral from origins to Odyssey and then to Valhalla, instead they left almost everything out.
    So yeah by deafult with Valhalla not giving a great experience you start to compare it to Odyssey and then Odyssey is the clear winner of the two.

    Thats not to say that I consider Odyssey to be the best game ever. Far from it.

    Played 440 hours in Odyssey, but played 630 hours in W3, so that would make W3 a better game no?
    Then again i played over 3k hours in D3, so thats maybe the winner. Also played 3years fanatically wow.

    Funny thing though i stopped wow in 2008, but at that stage it already had transmog system. Now 13 years later and games still release without transmog systems?? Thats just lazy.

  • kreutzgang
    600 posts

    The worst thing about Odyssey is the lack of cats.

    I think it's funny someone would single out Odyssey for trying to do its own thing, when it clearly built on Origins, while Valhalla acts like Odyssey never existed and suffers for it.

  • Yesin069
    457 posts

    @asgardian02

    I didn't mean that literally everyone found that Odyssey is the best game. We are talking about AC here. The times where AC games where challenging the best games are long gone. AC2 at it's time was challenging the top of the line games because it was unique and improved from his prequel. Now even great AC games are nothing compared to The Witcher 3, Zelda, or RDR2.

    This is because Ubisoft are just trying to copy those best games instead of trying to be unique and improve on their own.

    I think i played Odyssey the longest from all AC games. But I hate it the most. So time played means nothing for me. I am a crazy completionst and play every mainline AC game.IT was really hard work in Odyssey to keep playing and getting 100%. I had no other game at the time and needed to 100% the game to be able to sleep again. This is just a problem in my crazy head but i still can say that i really disliked the game.
    But i love Nioh so nobody can say that i dislike millions of random loot with different values. Odyssey just didn't do it well and the combat is 5 leagues under games like Nioh.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @yesin069

    why bother continuing to play a game you dont like...

    I am a completionist too, but in valhalla i made an exception, stopped fishing early on and stopped with loads of other useless stuff too.

    I sleep perfect 😛

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