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  • DaelosTheCat
    Original poster 169 posts

    So yeah. As much as I like the new action/RPG direction the game is taking, I can't help but regret the sudden change in the genre. Assassin's Creed used to be historical fiction. As in, it took historical settings, depicted as accurately as the plot needed them to be, populated it with historical events and characters (whose historicity was, again, as accurate as it was technically possible), added some sci-fi elements like the artifacts and the Animus and that was that. And it was good.

    With the last 3 games, however, it has become more and more fantasy. Less things make sense in terms of reality. How did the priest in Memphis know that Bayek will have a vision? How did a priestess in Valhalla know that Eivor will see a dead jarl if he drinks a potion atop the mountain? We have magical abilities, prophecies, events that make no sense in terms of believeability or plausibility.

    It used to be that whenever a game in the series used to bend historicity, it was only to a believeable extent and only to serve the story. Assassins were not a group of fanatical killers, but an organization that protected free will? Sure, okay, I can go with it. Rodrigo Borgia became a pope to get the staff of Isu? Sure, it makes sense.

    But where has it gone now? We're seeing an equal number of men and women as both soldiers and bandits. This was historically never the case. And you bend this why? To paint history in a way that is more pleasing to the modern audience? Sure, in our day and age most of us are civilized. We understand why equality is important. We also don't have slavery anymore. And we value human life. Does this mean we need to portray the past in a similar manner? I don't see why in a historical setting, historical accuracy is being bent this way. What purpose does this serve?

    Every new game in the series keeps not just bending historicity. It completely breaks it. And I just don't see why they need to do this.


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  • ThordekHU
    9 posts

    @daelosthecat A lot of disbelieving in the game. Taking about "humanity freedom" in the IX century?! People are saying "wow"?! Each 3rd warrior is woman?! They even created a non-existent word jarlskona for femal jarls - lol. Eivor and Sigur are leaving their homeland because "peace is boring", but arriving in England they immediately start looking for allies and peace. All vikings have blue clothing. Most of roman ruins are scaffolded. Settlement shipwright is a woman. Having chinese and indian persons in the IX century England is a joke. Occupy a well fortified castle with 20 warriors is silly. Until now we had the brotherhood, but now we just realize, there is called sisterhood as well - woeful. Eivor is rejecting the Assassins disciples, but the game is around the Assassins. Eivor grave is in the middle of nowhere in woods, but the never-aging supergirl Layla already found it. And she starts saving the world from a recess stall. I'll not enumerate further western modern c.rap enforced into the IX century.

  • Quor321
    232 posts

    Not sure what's wrong with adding fantasy to it. We got the full truth as far as the game goes as to where humans come from and where the gods come from in Odyssey. Not completely fantasy either as stories of Atlantis or pre civilization, civilization theories still exist. Valhalla has tossed some bits of that story line continuing from what I have seen so far.

    As far as gender and race are concerned. Not sure it matters in a game. The game was made for the world not just white Americans that are fans of the show Vikings. We also live in a world that is hyper sensitive to human rights and equality. Be unwise to create the game without this in mind.

  • OTG_Gilamunsta
    32 posts

    Historical fiction? This series has always been a sci-fi game set on an alternate earth...

  • Sam_Boo26
    167 posts

    There has always been history and science fiction in AC games since the Isus and the Animus have always been there. They're adding to it since the most recent games, but the series hasn't really changed because of that.

  • DaelosTheCat
    Original poster 169 posts

    @sam_boo26

    It has. There was never magic in games prior to Origins.

  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @daelosthecat Depends on what you count. Brotherhood had unlockable cheats like: Unicorns
    Or the Raiden Skin 🙂

    In Valhalla they at least explained it with hallucinations or dreams instead of "Animus Glitches"
    The explanation in Origins were glitches I think. Odyssey didn't care to explain I think.

  • Hank_Pank
    20 posts

    What's especially grating to me is that Ubisoft isn't content to merely have female warriors in their games, they need to take the suspension of disbelief and make it completely non-viable with 8 foot tall Amazonians with more muscle than Schwarzenegger undefined

  • GoDaPe
    9 posts

    @daelosthecat The Isu are an ancient and highly-advanced species of humanoid beings who were active on Earth during the eponymous era.

    "I BELIEVE" "I BELIEVE"

  • FylkirPanzer
    180 posts

    One of Clarke's three laws is: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

    I believe that counts the Isu in this game setting. Seeing as Isu weapons are typically looked at with awe and a sense of magic. That was present in previous games, i.e. Apples of Eden, might as well be magic to the random guards you freeze so you can kill them in AC Brotherhood, etc.

  • DaelosTheCat
    Original poster 169 posts

    @godape

    It's not about that. Think of it this way. Reading / watching / playing any work of fiction requires a certain degree of suspension of disbelief. And that's okay. As long as it doesn't require the reader / viewer / player to suspend it too much. A good example of this would be Superman. We accept the premise that this guy can fly, even though this contradicts the laws of physics. But it's much harder to convince ourselves that the whole city is so dense a superhero can trick them by wearing glasses and putting some product in his hair.

    It's the same with AC. I can accept the premise of an ancient race and their technological artifacts. I can even accept some unrealistic parkour. But I cannot accept how people had visions or how there were women in charge everywhere. It's just not how it was or could have been. It's like the authors, instead of tackling difficult topics paint us a picture of our history being all sorts of friendly. Where a slave and his master would sing kumbaya together as they worked towards a bright tomorrow. That's not just bending historicity. That's breaking it entirely. And this is what I have a problem with.

  • Cell1e
    174 posts

    Yes, I always felt the series had some credibility and historical accuracy going on beside the fantasy/scyfy elements. I don't really mind fantasy, I confess I took great delight in odyssy trotting around on my unicorn trailing glitter everywhere.

    So Im no stickler to reality that's for sure however one thing has been slightly weird for me playing through this game, is that England is portrayed as having all the seasons going on at once.

    I saw bluebells (spring) in woods with autumn brown trees, I saw summer heather on hills just a short trot away, further up the map I find deep snow, deeper than any we would be used to here. So all seasons at one time? Id be most happy just for summer. But I guess they just over-killed on everything to make the maps more interesting because there are copious amounts of foxes, wolves, bears, big birds, fish...half of those things you just don't see anymore over here. Donkeys with panniers just standing idle in fields...as if they are born with the panniers attached..😁 ..well the list goes on..still its very pretty indeed. 😁

  • Netspook
    307 posts
    @daelosthecat They even created a non-existent word jarlskona for femal jarls - lol.

    @ThordekHU
    Not as "non-existent" as you claim.

    It's just two words put together. "Kone" means "wife" in Norewgian ("kona" = "the wife"), so jarlskona is accurate for "the jarl's wife".

  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @godape One strength of the games were that we never actually experienced the days of the Isu. Till Odyssey I think. But this was also some kind of "simulation".

    Having your own thoughts about how these people might have lived and it being so far in the past can't be satisfied by showing one definitive version. Your imagination will always have been way better than what they can deliver. By showing them they ultimately destroyed a large portion of the believability of an such advanced species. Keeping them in the shadows and being vague about them, showing their effects on us today is far more effective for keeping it believable.

    That's another point why Odyssey destroyed a lot of the franchise. AC was always about that Isu mystery and it should have kept the actual Isu time a mystery. Nobody actually complained that we weren't able to play in Isu times. We want historical settings with added Isu spice 🙂

    Edit:
    [SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING OF THE GAME]
    spoiler

  • Leucos_
    16 posts

    @daelosthecat

    there aint any magic in origins, odyssey or valhalla either, all you see as "magical" is caused by isu technology or animus glitches. even the visions are only there because of isu technology in one way or another.

  • Leucos_
    16 posts

    @souldrinkerlp

    we did see the isu times in valhalla as well though.

    only read the spoiler if you finished the game!!!!

    spoiler




  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @leucos_ I do know that. What we see isn't real but the memories itself are.

  • Leucos_
    16 posts

    @souldrinkerlp
    indeed, we did see the isu times in much older games as well, if you found all 20 Glyphs in AC 2 you saw adam and eve running in the city of eden after they stole the apples and i dont remember in which game it was but we also saw the destruction of the earth through the sun erruption.

  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @leucos_ Yea, these are small glimpses and I am ok with that. We shouldn't be playing during Isu times. Like they do it now it is probably somewhat fine. Experiencing Isu memories through a mythological lense.

  • Leucos_
    16 posts

    @souldrinkerlp
    i agree with that, the mythological lense approach probably is the best you can do if you really want to include isu times in ac games as a developer. And i doupt that they will do that all the time, this particular approach requires some very specific characters to work and i doupt that we will play such a character in all the future ac games as well. 🙂

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