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  • Strumthund
    Original poster 3 posts

    Getting this out of the way, I have not played Valhalla. From what I’ve been seeing, I’m not sure I want to. I’ve been playing this series since launch of the first game. I finished the first five games, but had to stop during Black Flag because I didn’t like the emphasis on ships. I finally came back for Origins and Odyssey, and have every trophy for both of them. I played all of Odyssey in spite of the inclusion of player choice. Seeing that player choice seems to be even more prevalent in Valhalla just about guarantees my lack of desire to play it. As far as I’m concerned, the only choices that the player should make in an Assassin’s Creed title should be truly meaningless. The entire conceit of the franchise is that you aren’t actually playing as the character in the past, but the person in the animus reliving their memories. Desmond had no more control over Altair or Ezio’s life than Layla had over Bayek or Kassandra’s, so why does Odyssey give us choices that affect the story? Even outside of a lore perspective, Odyssey was the first game in the series that had me spoiling the story for myself so I wouldn’t make a wrong choice. From what I’ve seen of Valhalla, you as Layla are now making decisions that change not only the story, but how people percieve Eivor, even who plays a role in Eivor’s life, and that disconnect from what AC has traditionally been about has killed my interest in this game. If this is the direction the series is going to continue going, I think I might just be done. I’d love to hear some other perspectives because I really like this series and don’t want to tap out, but at this point I think I might just be done. Which is a shame because Origins was one of my favorite games in the franchise, but they seem to be going further and further from what I like about these games. Anyway, again, I’d love to hear some more perspectives.

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  • PALMATJ
    40 posts

    @strumthund

    spoiler/not-spoiler

    In my opinion, some of both your and others concerns about “free choice” within an animus simulation are addressed in this games real world interludes. Without going too deep into the story, the idea of historical “nexuses” is introduced. Essentially, many choices in a historical timeline could be made but ultimately everything has to boil down to a particular conclusion.

    Two thoughts:

    1: the different choices you make in the game do influence the results and may change the ending. But, I would ask, is there a best ending? Is it worth spoiling the story for yourself looking up the choices to make? I would hope (with no evidence) that the script is written well enough that the ending you get best reflects the way you played the game. You wanna see it different, play it different...

    2: using the nexus idea, any ending you get will fit the overall meta story. Any choices you make will somehow boil down to the particular events that have to happen to keep with the overall story.

    I think there could be a way for Ubi to expand on this idea. That said, it’d have to be well done. Frankly, I think I preferred the original games with a set plot line, but I appreciate what they’re trying to do with a more “choose your own adventure” style.

    This is after having completely played through every title (minus Valhalla, 2 bugs are keeping me from my platinum).

  • PALMATJ
    40 posts

    @strumthund

    I just re-read your original post.

    Unless I missed something, no Layla choices had an effect on the Evior plot, or vice-versa...

  • Strumthund
    Original poster 3 posts

    @palmatj what I meant by Layla influencing Eivor’s story is that you are technically playing as Layla the entire game, and the Eivor segments are Layla in the animus reliving the memories, so by you making a choice, as I see it, that equates to Layla making a choice.

  • rankinsect
    52 posts

    @strumthund Origins and beyond have expanded the core lore of the series to include the fact that the "real-world" universe is also a simulation - the Isu knew this and were able to predict the future of the simulated universe, but were unable to change anything they foresaw. Likewise, the creators of the Templar's animus simply took as an absolute fact that the past could not be changed, and the animus they built was thus unable to do so.

    Origins basically states that Layla's animus was built on different principles by a mind that imagined the universe from a different perspective than the Templars / Abstergo - capable (at least in a limited way) of changing the simulation itself, although thus far those changes have not drastically altered the timeline of the world. The real-world / Isu story seems to be leading towards Layla's animus being the key to preventing another "real"-world cataclysm, which Desmond could delay but not prevent entirely.

  • Strumthund
    Original poster 3 posts

    @rankinsect Unless I missed something, or there’s new info in Valhalla, “reality as simulation” is still just a theory, and I could see it turning out that the references to the code of the universe being a result of trying to translate fourth-dimensional concepts into something a human can parse. And, if I’m perfectly honest, if “reality as simulation” is the canon answer, it kinda makes this worse for me, cause that kinda feels like changing the story to cover a change in mechanics, and I always prefer the game serve the story rather than the other way around. I realize this may come across as me being a contrarian, but that’s really not my intent.

  • Leucos_
    16 posts

    @strumthund

    i think the whole "reality is a simulation" thing is more the isu referring to simulating (seeing into) many possible futures in thair attempt to find one in which they successfully were able to protect themselfes from the sun erruption rather than the reality actually just being a simulation, for the isu reality at the point in time the games play in indeed was just a simulation of a possible future from the isu point of view.

  • PALMATJ
    40 posts

    @strumthund

    Point taken, but take away too many choices and you’re watching a movie instead of playing a game. You’ve always had to make choices, which investigation to do first, which Templar to kill, it was never “Desmond relives Altair’s life down to the very footstep”. I’m not trying to be pedantic, but if they can write it well enough to make any of the choices you make fit the overarching story I’m fine with it.

    My play through of Valhalla is going to end up at around 130-135 hours to get the platinum trophy (once they patch a couple bugs). That was with normal map function and hard level combat. Most of this was running around getting collectibles. It was similar for odessey and origins. It gets to be a bit of a slog at the end. What I think might be fun, if they could pull it off (well written into the story), is to reduce the collectibles and running around and add more storyline choices. One play through as a “good” assassin, one as a “bad” one. But I’m not up for it if it takes 100 hours.

    This is all from a “I want to play a fun game” perspective rather than an “everything needs to fit the canon” perspective.

  • SouldrinkerLP
    316 posts

    @leucos_ Exactly. It is at most hinted at in the games. It is not said that the real world (therefore isu age and modern day etc.) is itself a simulation. It would render many things meaningless anyway and would open the door for resurrecting everyone you like and doing crazy stuff in modern time. I think Isus are crazy enough for AC.

    Laylas Animus is like the Future predictions of the Isu capable of seeing what could have been instead of what could be. That way the Animus is able to offer Layla choices. Imagine it like a future prediction machine teleported back in time to Eivors time and seeing a version of how the future from that point could play out. There are pivotal points in time tho which will always happen. It is explained in Odyssey with the bad state the DNA is in and the Animus basically "filling the gaps". Nonetheless Odyssey explanation made no sense because of that scene where you have your chosen main protagonist appearing in modern day. Therefore Layla changed time with the gender decision in that game. I consider this to be non-canon tho and the canon choice is Kassandra after all.

    In Valhalla it is because [SPOILER ENDING] spoiler I think at least it is something along those lines.




  • Leucos_
    16 posts

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