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    Achilleus-
    Original poster 33 posts

    Edit: before people say "it's just a game, smile, consume, and shut up",... I think it's worth Ubisoft knowing that there are people out there who know and who will call them out on dropping quality standards.
    The price is still $60 for every game

    The quality of the geographical historical research done in AC: Valhalla surprised me. As compared to Origins and Odyssey it is quite subpar.

    It starts with the protagonist. I believe it has been mentioned already that Eivør is a female name only. The male version of this name is Eivar

    https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Eivor: (https://nordicnames.de/wiki/Eivor)
    https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Eivar: (https://nordicnames.de/wiki/Eivar)

    But leaving that to one side.

    I can't review all of England and Norway, but I can review London (Lūndonjon / Lūndyn / Lunden).
    Much of what would have stood there in 873 AD is missing.

    It looks like the Ubisoft historian used this map from Wikipedia as a reference:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_Londinium_400_AD-en.svg

    Without realizing that map contains a very small amount of the buildings in London at that time.

    At this level of historical research a general knowledge site like Wikipedia is insufficient.
    If other historians want to chime in with details feel free.

    General:

    -The game seems to ignore the Saxon social division of the city by the Walbrook, Britons were known to have lived to the east (Cornhill), while the Saxons toward Ludgate Hill to the West (Lundenwic).

    -The bustling heart of the city was Lundenwic itself, as the roman ruins of the East were largely uninhabited save for Bretons who lived on the outskirts.

    -Why are there so many Persian rugs in every house in every village across Saxon England?

    -The Sulis Minerva temple is in Bath, not Lunden.

    -The Basiclia and Forum in Lunden was three stories high, but partly destroyed in 4th century. It looks pristine in the game but is too small.


    East of the Forum:

    -London wall misses the entire Eastern side (Aldgate, etc).

    -All Hallows-by-the-Tower church in East London built 675 AD is missing.

    -Billingsgate Roman House and Baths in East London built 180 AD is missing.

    -Barking Abbey in East London built 650 AD is missing.

    -Roman temple in Greenwich Park South East london, built 200 AD is missing.

    -Mithraeum is in the wrong place. It was West of the Basilica. The museum is also only underground today.


    West of the Forum:

    -St Alban's church, 300 yrds North East of St. Pauls, below the north wall. Built 770 AD, is missing.

    -St Andrew-by-the-Wardrobe between St. Paul's and the Thames. Pre 10th century AD, is missing.

    -St. Martin's Le Grand, second largest church in Lunden. 200 yrds North of St. Pauls, below the wall, 700 AD is missing.

    -St. Pancras Old Church, North of Cripplegate, built no later than 625 AD, possibly as early as 314 AD, is missing.


    Cripplegate:

    -Cripplegate Fort Eastern and Southern walls should be square, 200m each side.

    -AD 680 onwards confirm that there was a ‘King’s Hall Palace’ although its precise location has never been discovered. Aldermanbury (a.k.a. Ealdorman burgh a.k.a. Palace of the Ealdorman) is theorised to have been this palace,... was by the Eastern Cripplegate wall. Modern name of Aldermanbury is still used there.


    Lundenwic:

    There is one generic "Lundenwic Abbey" in game. In the 9th century there would have been 5 or possibly 7 abbeys in Lundenwic.

    -St Martin-in-the-Fields, South Lundenwic. Built 7th century AD

    -St. Bride's church, Lundenwic. 200 yards West of St. Pauls. Built 650 AD.

    -St Clement Danes, in Lundenwic. Built 850 AD.

    -St Mary Le Strand, in Lundenwic. Unknown date of construction but traces of Saxon remains are found below the foundations of the church.

    -St Andrew Holborn, (first wooden version) 200 yds. North West of Newgate. Unknown date of construction but traces of Roman remains are found below the foundations of the church.


    Modern Westminster (South of Lundonwic)

    -Thorney Island (Trinovantum) / Westminster abbey, a few hundred yards south of Lundenwic doesn't feature the ruins of the Temple of Apollo or nascent Peter's monastery that would have stood there in the late 9th century AD.


    Further reading:

    If you are interested in this time period of England, you can read further here:

    https://www.romanobritain.org/7-maps/map_roman_london.php: (https://romanobritain.org/7-maps/map_roman_london.php) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_Londinium_400_AD-en.svg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Hallows-by-the-Tower
    https://clasmerdin.blogspot.com/2012/07/in-search-of-londons-ancient-temples.html: (https://clasmerdin.blogspot.com/2012/07/in-search-of-londons-ancient-temples.html)
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/3A39B1E4FDC498AC4D01ABC79539DD0E/S0003598X00076845a.pdf/lundenwic-the-archaeological-evidence-for-middle-saxon-london.pdf: (https://cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/3A39B1E4FDC498AC4D01ABC79539DD0E/S0003598X00076845a.pdf/lundenwic-the-archaeological-evidence-for-middle-saxon-london.pdf)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Bride%27s_Church#Origins
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Martin-in-the-Fields#Roman_era
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/content.gresham.ac.uk/sites/default/files/greshamlec.pdf: (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/content.gresham.ac.uk/sites/default/files/greshamlec.pdf)
    http://www.johnchaple.co.uk/temples.html: (http://johnchaple.co.uk/temples.html)
    https://www.thenationalcv.org.uk/rulersbc.html: (https://www.thenationalcv.org.uk/rulersbc.html)
    https://www.academia.edu/24037786/An_archaeological_assessment_of_the_origins_of_St_Pauls: (https://academia.edu/24037786/An_archaeological_assessment_of_the_origins_of_St_Pauls)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Dunstan-in-the-West
    https://www.britainexpress.com/attractions.htm?attraction=1591: (https://britainexpress.com/attractions.htm?attraction=1591)
    https://www.standrewholborn.org.uk/history.php: (https://www.standrewholborn.org.uk/history.php)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londinium#1st_century
    http://anglosaxon.archeurope.info/index.php?page=aldermanbury: (http://anglosaxon.archeurope.info/index.php?page=aldermanbury)
    https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/the-history-of-old-billingsgate/: (https://datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/the-history-of-old-billingsgate)
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/3A39B1E4FDC498AC4D01ABC79539DD0E/S0003598X00076845a.pdf/lundenwic-the-archaeological-evidence-for-middle-saxon-london.pdf: (https://cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/3A39B1E4FDC498AC4D01ABC79539DD0E/S0003598X00076845a.pdf/lundenwic-the-archaeological-evidence-for-middle-saxon-london.pdf)
    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/palace/estatehistory/the-middle-ages/anglosaxon-royal-palace/: (https://parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/palace/estatehistory/the-middle-ages/anglosaxon-royal-palace)
    https://www.westminster-abbey.org/about-the-abbey/history/history-of-westminster-abbey: (https://westminster-abbey.org/about-the-abbey/history/history-of-westminster-abbey)
    https://www.heritagedaily.com/2017/07/10-roman-london-locations/116068: (https://heritagedaily.com/2017/07/10-roman-london-locations/116068)
    www.johnchaple.co.uk: (https://johnchaple.co.uk) › templesWeb resultsPre-Roman London's Temples - Britain's Hidden History
    www.thenationalcv.org.uk: (https://www.thenationalcv.org.uk) › rulersbcThe National CV of Britain - Rulers BC
    http://www.johnchaple.co.uk/temples.html: (http://johnchaple.co.uk/temples.html)

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  • FylkirPanzer
    180 posts

    @achilleus Let us also not forget the poor research done for historical armor and weapons, etc. i.e. two handed longswords, military flails, brigandines, plate armor, etc.

    I know I'm supposed to suspend my disbelief when it comes to video games, but having played Odyssey, they paid really close attention to remaking historical weapons and armor, ships, locations, etc. Whereas in Dark Ages England it feels extremely chopped down and lazy, figuring that Vikings would sell more than enough on its own without all of the attention and care put into it.

  • Stedmister
    23 posts

    @achilleus Have you finished the game, there a bit more in-depth into my certain decisions were made, I mean I could just past it right here, but then that spoil it for everyone.

  • XXeK37smaJHn
    12 posts

    "The game seems to ignore the Saxon social division of the city by the Walbrook, Britons were known to have lived to the east (Cornhill), while the Saxons toward Ludgate Hill to the West (Lundenwic)"
    Well that's because Diversity is Strength, and a group of people have no right to oppose or dissent to another entire society with a different culture and religion picking up their foundations and transplanting their population into the former groups lands. And certainly nothing bad ever comes of that, for either group involved

  • Achilleus-
    Original poster 33 posts

    I missed these:

    -The colossal aqueducts are fantasy. Lunden never had elevated aqueducts. Let alone skyscraper high ones. It is right on a river so there is no need.

    -London Bridge Fortifications are a fantasy. In all likelihood, the first wooden bridge across the Thames was built in 994 AD. The first stone bridge with fortifications was built in 1209 AD. The fortification (Great Stone Gate) was only on the Southwark side. The gate is 336 years too new and it's also missing the dozens of heads of traitors on pikes displayed on top.

    I'm interested if there are other historians that can comment on the London portrayed in the game.

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