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  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    So let me get this straight, you release paid content that shows the stats on the screen before you purchase said items, change the stats without telling the people buying said items first, and then you make a post that we can't respond to saying you're nerfing the brand new armor(s) too.

    When are you planning to offer refunds on the products?

    Better yet, why are you changing the items at all? Leave them alone. It's a single player game. Nerfing and balancing are not the same thing.

    $20 says Ubisoft is going to have an ability in one of the DLC expansions that allows one more tier upgrade that gives all sets the ability to have a diamond slot and the paid armor sets are getting in the way of one of the features they want to sell to people.

    On a side note, how about the fact that It's been three months since people have reported the bug preventing them from using/changing Tattoos that they spent money on. It's like a sign that folks shouldn't spend money on Microtransactions...

    (Made this post in the Player Support section, but not sure if that's the correct location thinking back on it so sorry for the duplicate post)

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  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    @the-foxhounded It isn't just bait and switch not only have they lowered the quality of the armor but they've also lowered it's usefulness in the game.Last I heard a company needed to place a statement that the product can be upgraded or reduced (WITHOUT NOTICE)giving fair warning to the consumer which people did not receive.Since they are separate transactions from the game they are not subject to the same stipulations as the game so yes people who bought these armors before they changed the stats are entitled to a refund.Ubisoft has an obligation to the consumer that they get the item they paid for and that item stays the same for the duration of use,This is really a [censored] move on Ubisofts part but unfortunately, given their behavior through these first 2 months of release not at all surprising.Just FYI if people desire a class action lawsuit can be filed against Ubisoft for misrepresentation and Ubisoft in fairness to the consumer should be offering refunds to people out of principle alone or return the stats to what they were when first purchasedm but don't hold your breath for this company to be fair!

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    @duskdragon56496 Best bet is to raise awareness of the situation then.

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    Well the best way to raise awareness is to appeal to someone who has a lot of youtube followers or even facebook,I'm sure there are a lot of people who've purchased armors who don't even know they've been cheated.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @the-foxhounded

    uhmmm.. they already made a statement about this a few days ago, so whats the point of this topic?

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    @asgardian02 That what they are doing is illegal...? Just because they tell you that they are going to change it doesn't make it any less illegal. If I tell a bank that I'm going to rob it before I rob it doesn't make it legal.

    They sold a product and the rune slots was part of said product. It was advertised as such. Now that people have purchased the item, they are making the items worth less or worthless depending on how you use the item. This was their intention from the beginning or at the very least they intended to change it before releasing the Gothic Set and didn't mention it until after people purchased it.

    This is a bait and switch.

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @the-foxhounded i don't know what people can get away with legally, but it's definitely dodgy. After all, they brought out the unnerfed amor for sale, after or at the same time as nerfing the stuff people had already bought. Doing it the other way round would have made more sense if they aren't trying to rip people off and just think it's op,a nd OP or not, people are going to be buying it b/c it's OP (isn't that the entire point in stupid microtransactions: sell people crap so they can play games on a higher difficulty or skip repetitive content). Also, at least looking at the armor doesn't tell you it will be nerfed, idk if they have that info if people actually buy it but if they don't, making some statement and expecting people to have read it is weird at best.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @the-foxhounded
    not saying that, dont twist my words.

    it just means that all their helix gear will have just 1 diamond rune slot moving forward.

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    @Asgardian02 When you buy a product, if it doesn't specify that that product can be changed at any time giving the consumer fair warning, then they can't just change it after it's already been purchased, releasing a statement after the fact doesn't suddenly make it legal.Ubisoft is well aware of this but because most people are so accepting of their BS they just pretty much do what they want,They should not get away with this,and its not just the slots that were nerfed it was the stats as well.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @duskdragon56496

    i am not defending ubisoft nor was i trying, i was merely pointing out what will happen.
    Maybe i choose my words wrong, but still.

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    No I understand I know you weren't, and chances are Ubisoft will probably get away with cheating people with their nonsense, and it should be a REVELATION to people to stop supporting that dammed helix store,if they're changing the stats at will, doesn't make them worth buying does it?

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @duskdragon56496

    honestly all sets are a joke in this game, its all about heavy or light damage on full or low hp. the stats on each sets are basically the same.
    Its totally pointless.

    You can lvl up 5 mastery lvls and yet you stats stay the same, whats the point even?

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    Exactly, and that is pretty much proof positive that this game was never tested properly in the first place, this is about as unbalanced a game as I've ever played.

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @duskdragon56496

    to keep me from playing the game i actually uninstalled it at this point.
    cos each time i log in i wonder what i possible could do that i havent done a 100 times over already.

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    thats why I stopped playing for a while, I was bored yesterday so I played Asgard, and boy did I regret it...lol

  • Asgardian02
    1932 posts

    @duskdragon56496

    i re-installed odyssey, but turns out i am lvl843 there and am way overpowered or i could be in a low lvl area:P

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    I saw someone try to use the "You paid for the helix credits, not the sets" excuse on reddit. I wrote this in response to that.

    "That wouldn't hold up in court as the armor still has a monetary value. Ubisoft are committing fraud (false advertising/Bait and Switch) by selling a product where the stats/slots are shown before purchasing and is a feature of the content being sold.
    The fact that the products are still being sold in the shops after they plan on changing it just adds more fuel to the flame. They also released the Gothic set at the same time they had made changes to a separate set sold in the store with the intention of changing the stats.
    If this was aimed at a single person then it would be a misdemeanor, as this is affecting a lot of people and it's made them a profit of over $500 then this has become a felony."

  • Rincewind2981
    8 posts

    You are not going to get much traction using your current argument. The terms of service agreement that you go along with just by ordering the game or buying anything from Ubisoft digitally, allow for Ubisoft to change it at will, as you only have a license to use the product, you do not actually own anything. It's the whole reason they can release a game as unfinished as this, and constantly update it without our permission.

    You may be able to get somewhere with the fact that some of their in game menus refer to activities in the game that cannot be accomplished, ie guaranteed assassination working on ALL enemies.

    The only other option I see is to get a court to nullify the agreement by ruling that Ubisofts conduct was unconscionable. A ruling such as that would allow the court to force Ubisoft to either fix what had been done, or make restitution. I really dont see the diamond slot issue being much use here, sure it's down right infuriating, but they issued a release about, and notified the community at large about changes, and furthermore it does not alter the base game enough to violate an end user license agreement (EULA).

    The only action I see thus far by Ubisoft that may be deemed unconscionable by a court may be their level scaling. There were multiple interviews and press releases stating that this would not be a feature in Valhalla, yet without even warning us, they placed it in the game, fundamentally altering the playing experience of anyone who bought it before December 14th. If you bought it at launch, this is not the same game you played on day one.

    But even after saying all this, EULAs are so broadly written that it is almost impossible to get a company to issue refunds, or make changes, because they hold all the cards. Even CD project red was not deemed unconscionable by a court, they were shamed into providing refunds by the public and corporate partners. Until digital ownership laws are updated to reflect the current times, its buyer beware, or just dont play their game.

  • DuskDragon56496
    374 posts

    mtx are not subject to the same stipulations as the base game, they are a separate entity sold as an addition to the game, not as part of the game.For Ubisoft to legally be able to change the stats on an already purchased armor they would have to make it clear in the store that the statistical value can be changed at any time which they did not do.Writing an article after people have already purchased the item doesn't release them from that obligation.They didn't just change the diamond to regular runes they also lowered the stats which makes the item far less useful to the player.This is a shameful move on Ubisofts part.If you need a technical term it's called fraud by wire or telegraph, which even in these minor terms means selling an item to a player and then lowering the value without any warning.If Ubisoft were giving these items for free then they are well within their rights to change them as they please.However, when people have already paid for the item with an expectation of performance then Ubisoft has an obligation to offer people a refund for having changed the statistics of the product.If you bought a month of netflix for 20 dollars that included everything,then a week later they said well we're only going to give you have the services, you know full well you'd be wanting a refund, you wouldn't let them get away with that nonsense, why should Ubisoft get away with it ?

  • The-Foxhounded
    Original poster 54 posts

    @rincewind2981 Just because something is written in a TOS doesn't make it legally binding. If a company commits a crime then it void's their TOS. False Advertisement is a crime. You're not legally allowed to sign away your rights.

    When it comes to changes in the game, yes they can change anything they want as long as said content wasn't a direct selling point. ( Like saying the game has multiplayer, and the mode is never added). The reason why they have no ground to stand when it comes to the microtransactions is because they are a separate purchase. You can't change an items features that are advertised after the product is purchased.

    If you look in the helix store you will see that the item's preview shows the item's slots in the images. That makes it an advertised feature. To top it off, the day they released the Gothic set was the same day they started to nerf other exclusive armors slots and didn't disclose the changes in their publicly released patch notes.

    The fact that they admitted that they were planning to change the slots and still listed the item in their shop rather than delaying it for the changes first shows this was their intention in the first place.

    That being said, they can get away with changing the items as long as they give, at the very least, the Helix credits back to the players who purchased the gear or give the option for a helix refund.

    Until then, they can easily be held liable.

    They could always fight the charges in court and who knows, maybe even win, but the fact that they are fighting such a thing rather than making things right with the people who support you would be a PR nightmare.

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