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    Yesin069
    554 posts
    This post is deleted!
  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    If you hit F5, the page reloads and displays the poll.

    @yesin069 The anti SJW crowd often outright don't want female characters at all, or only if they are super unrealistic and half naked. Also, in many historical settings a female pretending to be male is actually more realistic than a female doing stuff women didn't do at that time, but it depends upon how it's done. Is that your definition of a "transgender protagonist"?

  • Yesin069
    554 posts
    This post is deleted!
  • Kormac67
    800 posts

    I find it kind of silly when people debate about "realistic" regarding gender in a computer game. If you want "realistic" make every hit disable your character completely and remove all healing. Remove the ability to carry anything except what you have equipped. Sounds fun, huh? And that's just for starters.

    For me it's simple. No female main character, no buy. Others prefer male, so let's have a choice. And I couldn't care less about "canon".
    Oh, and for the "girls don't sell" crowd - Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last Of Us, ...

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @kormac67

    Maybe "realistic" then is the wrong word. "Immersive" would be better then, or maybe a different word. There always is a difference between things that are done unrealistic in games because of gameplay fun and things that are done unrealistic to please specific tastes and annoy nobody.

    At the end of they day it always depends on the execution. We all should know at this point that Ubisoft won't take their time in fleshing out both male und female protagonists. That is the only reason I prefer one single well written character. If Ubisoft would be known as a company that is able to make a game with both genders and make them both great I would say "OK, then more options are always better!".

    I am a man and I also played and loved all Tomb Raider games, Horizon, Uncharted: The Lost Legacy and surely some others. I just don't care about the gender, i just care about the quality of those characters.
    In Syndicate I always played as Evie and in Odyssey and Valhalla I always choose the male ones. I just pick the better character.
    Alexios and Kassandra are both pretty bad so i just picked the male one, even if Kassanda is better. "Better" here still means pretty bad in comparison to other characters. Male Eivor just fits the setting better and looks more badass (I need to have my viking to have a beard, sorry) and Evie was miles better than the clown Jacob (even if "better" here also means pretty bad compared to others - see a pattern here...I don't like Ubisoft Quebec games and their characters).

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @yesin069 I don't understand why you think people having the choice to play who they want is politically correct. BTW, transgender people have existed throughout history; not only that, but there also used to be castrati and eunuchs. Did you know that Nero married a youth named Sporus, castrated him and had him dress like his dead wife? But I have no idea why we are discussing this as it's not a thing.

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @kreutzgang

    Because sometimes you have to sacrifice some freedom to tell a great story. If you clearly don't have the right devs or authors and don't get enough time to develop male and female protagonists with individual behaviours and dialogues, than you should focus on just one. Games like Mass Effect did a great job there but I don't believe that Ubisoft will be able to pull this off because of their management and investors don't give them more than 3 years to develop an AC game.
    Having the choice is always better as a said before, but if you tried in three games to give us male and female protagonists witout improving just an inch, then you should focus on one and try it again later and with more time.

    I don't even want to dive in this discussion of what existed and what not. If you dipe deep enough you can find everything that existed at any time. I know about castrati and eunuchs but i talked about transgender as we know them today and as they get implemented in everything just to please everyone. If they fit the story well or don't try to push it too much in the forefront then it is fine but if it feels forced and just calculated than i don't want to have this stuff. Like the forced male or female decissions in Odyssey and Valhalla. Don't feel natural and done well to me...

    But I don't care for this stuff. I just want well written characters without forcing the devs to please all groups and genders.

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @yesin069 I didn't have any issues with Alexios or male Eivor feeling non-fleshed out in spite of the female being canon, except that annoying bug where NPC's misgender your character, or in Eivor's case that the animations seem partly designed for a female.

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @kreutzgang

    This is your opinion and i am fine with it.

    For me both characters will never be as recognisable as the ones which got all the focus (except Aveline and Shay which are from Ubisoft Sofia who are also not so good in writing characters it seems). Alexios just is the baddest of them all because not just is he and empty vessel - he also has terrible voice acting. That's why i played this game in german. Eivor is better but he could have got more focus when they used the time to switch to a female Eivor more on focusing just on one male or female.

    For me Kassandra/Alexios, Jacob/Evie and Eivor are the worst characters in the AC main series (i don't count Shay and Aveline to the main series). This isn't just because i hate games that let me decide which gender to choose, this is just how I feel about those characters. Even characters like Connor and Arno are way more interesting for me and would deserve a sequel. Not talking about Ezio, Edward and Bayek. The only characters where i don't want a sequel for, are the ones mentioned above. Eivor is a lot better than Kassandra/Alexios because now they tried to explain both as canon.

    Nevertheless i don't want to repeat myself too often: If I think a developer can't pull of both genders in one game, than i prefer having one! If i trust the publisher and devs to deliver, than i always woul take the option with more options!

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @yesin069 your preferences are opinions though, some of which I agree with, others not. I think Alexios was really well done, and I prefer him to both Bayek and Eivor b/c he's not so serious all the time, like the others all seem to be. Shay was just dull, Aveline is overly experimental for the amount of game time they gave her, and I quit Unity because it felt as grindy as Valhalla does at the end at the beginning already. Connor and Edward are both more interesting to me than Ezio. *shrug*

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @kreutzgang

    Of course those are just opinions. Also I sometimes watch lists of the best games and characters in the AC series. After watching nearly all of them from new and old AC fans, it looks like all the stuff from Ubisoft Quebec isn't that beloved statisticly. Odyssey is rather hated or loved but Alexios/Kassandra always seem to be at the low-end when ranking characters.
    This shouldn't change your opinion that you liked them but i like that they criticise the correct things about them.

    Kassandra/Alexios for me had the big problem of missing character. They were empty vessels which could be kind in one scene and cruel in another. This is the problem with decisions and bad character writing. The Witcher games had big decisions but they all fitted the character of Geralt without letting him be black or white (depending on your decission).

    This is why i really dislike Kassandra/Alexios. The devs wanted more than anything to make an RPG and sacrificed the characters for it.

    I can't say how Eivor fits in all the other AC characters because this is a decision that i will make when i played Valhalla with all it's DLC. Ezio has the advantage of having three games just about him. From all characters I think Bayek deserved a sequel the most. He wasn't just always super serious. He also had his lighter moments when he played with kids. I prefer that to the forced humor from Ubisoft Quebec games. From Syndicate, to Odyssey, to Immortals they always try to put in too much of their childish humour.

    The World Events in Valhalla also have too much silly humour (like the farting woman). These are just things I don't like and many others too (maybe not here in this forum). Humour is always great in games when it isn't overly forced. Ubisoft should have tried more showing the curelty of vikings instead they focused too much in silly world events.
    I like the idea of World Events but all that i played until now are just trying too much to be funny. Some serious one in between would be great.

  • Kormac67
    800 posts

    @yesin069 Well, Bayek was the reason I quickly stopped playing Origins. (Along with the bad people graphics and the lame quests.)
    I felt zero interest in that dude. If I could have played as Aya as it was intended in the first place, it would have been totally different.

  • kreutzgang
    635 posts

    @yesin069 well all the opinions I've seen are not so clear-cut, beyond Ezio that is. Kassandra, as far as I've seen is pretty popular, actually. I guess it depends upon who you are asking.

    As for the Witcher, the decisions he makes that contribute to your ending are about as stupid as it gets, which isn't to say I like the game, but that in particular is dreadful.

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @kreutzgang

    Yes, Ezio is clearly the fan favorite. From what i've read and watched so far it seems like Kassandra just gets the upper hand when compared to Alexios (because of his bad voice acting). But Kassandra didn't get a chance against Edward or Bayek. This is just from watching a lot of AC videos lately (Lockdown and I have nothing better to do because the game is so buggy) and talking to a lot of people. Strangely just here are so many people that really like Odyssey. With all other people there was no discussion that Odyssey is a great RPG but no AC game and Alexios/Kassandra are bad characters.

    This is my opinion too but I also know that they have a lot of fans. And that is the trouble that Ubisoft has brought to themselves. The fanbase that loves Odyssey wants different things from games, than the ones that prefer all games until Unity and hate Odyssey and Ubisoft Quebec in general.

    I am now actually at the point where I don't will buy an AC made from Ubisoft Quebec again. It is even unlikely that I ever buy AC again after the miserable support from Valhalla. At this point in Origins the first DLC was already out (The Hidden Ones in January 2018). I don't need one need to number out the new content from Valhalla until now. What did we got: The Jul festivial (or better bug festival) and needles repeated Ubisoft Connect challenges. Bravo Ubisoft...Great work! Keep the microtransactions coming!

    @Kormac67

    That is how opinions can be different...

    Bayek is such a great charakter and his voice actor Abubakar Salim did such a great job. Aya on the other hand was pretty unlikable for me and better as a side character, not playable at all.

    Here is a character ranking which i would do nearly the same. I just skipped the Eivor part because it is a spoiler i think and i am still not even in London in Valhalla:

  • Karloz1995
    268 posts

    @kormac67

    i didnt like any of those games 😞 tlou2 was a joke to the gaming industry, [Removed 04/05/2021 by Ubi-Woofer], i find horizon repetitive and boring too, i liked aloy but the secundary npc, some of them were cringe as hell, thats the problem when western gaming developers make female protagonist, they kind of dont know how to writted them.. the most common message they put when they do games with female protagonist is man = bad, woman= good, man= useless, woman = strong.. always the same idiotic messages

    japanese developers do a better job at doing badass female characters

    samus aran
    bayonnette
    tifa
    the boss
    2b
    zelda (sheik)
    jill valentine

    i dont know more, but those are very good characters for me, that arent always screaming how useless and pathetic man are

  • Yesin069
    554 posts

    @karloz1995

    Don't forget Sadie Adler from Red Dead Redemption 2! This was a badass woman! Or Yennefer from The Witcher 3! 👰


  • Karloz1995
    268 posts

    @yesin069 yeah but rockstar is constantly underfire, for the way they develop games... a lot of people trying to cancel them.. yes i forgot witcher 3 one of my favorites games, guess there are some exceptions 😞

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