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Photo of test runs:
I used a Spear (max level) that consisted of 4 total strikes which includes the final sweeping move (the Finisher). Each build consisted of 3 trial runs to gain an average. NO other items or perks were equipped so I was completely naked aside from the Spear! And know that the couple points of increase stayed consistent with some other weapons I tested.
BIG FREAKING NOTE: I realized that numbers are almost ALWAYS consistent at a base level no matter the build of runes with very little variance (pretty much a difference of 1 Damage per strike was it). BUT there is a secret perk that exists at both Level 1 and Level 400 where Damage is increased when you successfully hit your Finisher moves MUCH like the Chain Finisher Fury Rune: "Increase Attack after a combo finisher (up to 5 times)". There is ZERO indication this is activating but after a couple hours of testing, it was obvious that it was activating behind the scenes. This increased damage DOES STACK and will eventually fall off JUST like the Rune! I presume it's a bug but explains why damage scales UP after extended skirmishes. It's also possible other perks are secretly applying but not sure. It would then make sense why damage scales up so heavily after many consecutive combos.
Explanation: Having 2x 4.0 Attack Runes (8 Attack Increase Total) and 2x 5.0 Light Runes (10 Light Increase Total) equipped at the same time will only increase your overall damage output by about 6% at Level 400. BUT at Level 1 it's about an increase of 42% because the Skill Tree scales TREMENDOUSLY more than Runes--Increases Damage output by 267% (or even higher!) from Level 1 to Level 400. So Runes fall off a ton. I have personally found Speed Runes to be God Tier with maybe Fire Damage being next--1x 3.3 Fire Damage Rune can increase DPS by a literal 3 points per tick (about 3 to 4 ticks per second) so you can increase damage by about 9 per second for just 1 Rune. At Level 400, Fire ticks at base for 18 damage so 1 Rune increases to 21 (16% Increase). For those curious, Fire Damage is literally like equipping a 3rd weapon so it's extremely valuable. After that.....well from an observation perspective when testing, most other runes seem to hold little value to increasing DPS much like Attack and Light. The only Rune I could see having a solid increase is potentially Elite Damage because your base at Level 400 is only 50. So a +5 Rune would be a large increase to this stat.
ALSO: "Attack" stat has a HARD CAP! I found this out when trying to optimize a build for as high of an Attack stat as possible. The Cap is 30 Points above the weapon's value. BUT this does not include Circle runes (such as +4.0 Attack Rune). Only Perks/Diamond Runes. Thus if you are using the Surtur Sword, you are CAPPED! If you are using the Mentor set, you only have 10 points to fill in at max stats. Now, I have tried testing this as thoroughly as possible and it does seem to cap your actual damage--meaning this is NOT just a graphical bug. When I got a spear at cap (157) I would hit for 40 to 41 damage on my first strike consistently. I would then apply Surtur Sword (+30 Attack) and my first strike was still 40 to 41 damage over many attempts. So it's safe to say that the 30 Hard Cap is legit.
I should add that the skill that increases damage for each Adrenaline slot filled maxes at 15 Attack. YES this counts towards your limit so you only have 15 more points till you cap out.
Yesin069 554 posts
This was obvious from the get go. They didn't show us percentage gains but instead just numbers. We don't need what the max number is so +20 attack is like 1 damage more.
This is why i simply do not care about armor set bonuses or runes. The good thing about this is, that microtransactions gear sets are not important and builds do not matter in Valhalla. Time to kill is also faster so it would be better for Ubisoft to take out those RPG number systems all together. Otherwise they will add OP gear sets in the microtransaction store.
Those numbers are just there to make us feel more powerful but in reality you make 1 damage more. The game isn'T hard in the first place so just ignore those numbers and all those build videos. The only "builds" in Valhalla are the ones focusing on poison or fire. No other stat changes anything. So Ubisoft should focus more on making the combat fun and give us more stealth options without guards detecting us directly from any position (even on lowest stealth difficulty).
@yesin069 correct its far from hard in the first place. I strongly believe there are bugs that also are impacting damage output. But overall, the damage scaling in this game is completely out of whack. Most of the stat runes are trivial in endgame and way too much weight is put on the Skill Tree for buffing stats. For one, I wouldnt mind damage stats being dialed back a bit in the Skill Tree to then put a bit more emphasis on Runes--maybe switch Runes to be percentage based vs flat rate increases. Would also nerf Grit a good amount when playing on Very Hard--cut healing from it in half or throw a cooldown on it. It single handidly is over powered.
Weapon rebalancing also needs to take place. Spears and Daggers need to have the same or similar damage debuffs other weapons get when dual wielded. Dane and Great Swords could utilize some minor buffs in return.
And Crit builds......God Crit just needs rebalanced. Stat needs to show an actual percentage for the love of God lol. And Crit Runes need to be buffed to have an actual impact.
Some aspects here could easily make the game a little more challenging and diverse. Grit and other healing single handidly is a major proponent to this. But putting a bit more emphasis on damage runes while cutting back healing potential will definitely create a bigger give/take situation. As of right now, there is very little of this "give and take" mechanic to builds.
same with the mastery system, its super silly and just to there so you grind something if you wish. However the increase is so slow and overal the system is very boring.
In fact with the way the stats and everything else is build they have shot themselves in the foot. Seeing how gear doesnt do much, why even buy from the helix store.
all true, but dont expect too much from. This doesnt seem to be the focused, many ppl found odyssey to hard even on easy (i just can imagine, bt yeah..)
So now they made their next much easier and over simplified everything.
Maybe some ppl dont mind all this. But for me this is a big let down.
@asgardian02 agreed. I'm a fairly hardcore player and get caught up in all the different tricks of optimizations and understanding how varying mechanics in a game work. But this is only truly entertaining when playing a harder (or hardest) difficulty that properly stresses Min/Maxing of builds. Its in these tougher circumstances I have always found unique mechanics can have the opportunity to really shine. Developers can better realize which builds lack while others are overpowered. Then in the next update, they can release new content that rebalances this which can keep the game fresh in many ways. But it still requires a robust and diversified system of stats that promote this endgame. Something lacking in Valhalla for sure.
I haven't played Odyssey yet but have read many good things about it. I plan on jumping over there once I have 100% this game.
min/maxing etc is what i really in Diablo3, but after having played that 3k hours i was kinda done. Really loved witcher3, but mostly for the world and the story.
But yeah plaing on hardest setting certainly makes you tinker around more with potions and gear and what not.
Kormac67 670 posts
T7PDM also explained in one of his videos that some of the square runes only work directly after you equip them. If they were equipped when you load the game they are ignored apparently.
The first demos of the game had no perk system at all, so I believe they started developing it last minute and shipped it completely broken and unfinished.
@kormac67 yeah someone mentioned that to me before. Everything I did here I was equipping and changing runes during the same session constantly and double checked my stats page to make sure it was applying.
I was astonished on the Attack Cap though. And its stupid if its legit and there is zero mention of it. I was originally wondering why I had some perks giving less Attack and thought this was contributed to the whole "diminishing returns." But found its freaking hard capped. Hopefully its just a bug because 30 points is low especially when considering that the skill that increases damage for every filled Adrenaline slot counts and at max is 15 points....
So to Edit (update) on 1 thing: the " hidden" damage scaling mechanic is actually the Defense mechanic. Kinda forgot about this one. Its not a significant damage dealer from what I could tell. I seemed to increase damage by about 5 to 15 Light Damage points when Defense was nearly 0. When you do get them to 0, they enter a "stunned" state which allows your next attack to deal a Deathblow that has massive damage buffs (I've gotten up to 5x or so more damage with a Heavy attack if I use this instead of entering the execution animation).
Its actually kinda an interesting mechanic. But like most other build aspects, its not important to focus on. Your damage does not seem to go up all that much plus every attack can shred through Defense. Just happens to be that Heavy deals more Stun damage than Light. Axes and Hammes also naturally deal more damage per hit and this also shows with Stun damage as well. Axe Heavy attack can really put a number in on this stat but again, I did not notice any significance in extra damage as the Defense stat goes down. And Spears can deal with it just as fast.
But it goes back to the same issue as mentioned: builds have little significance to endgame because most of the weight is put on to the Skill Tree which by about half way through, you can have most damage stats and the game begins to become trivial.
Since Ubisoft says they plan some sort of "longterm" development with Valhalla, I would definitely suggest a major rebalance in this department as builds hold no real significance unlike games like Diablo 3 or even Ghost of Tsushima--which GoT has a SOLID combat system that Ubisoft could really take some notes from and they can kinda relate to some degree. Thats a game where SOOOO many builds feel both impactful AND different at the endgame--its actually a fairly well balanced game. I think I have nearly 300 hours in that game (most put into Legends) thanks to how fun it is to try out and optimize varying builds and mechanics.
Odyssey was quite challenging for a long time. At some point there was a glitch if abused you could infinte lvls.
By doing that you could easily unlock all mastery lvls and more. It was at a point where i already played for like 500 hours.
Couple things to add to this post since I cannot edit it and its also still be posted on:
1) When I mention about damage increasing after each finisher is actually related to an Enemies Defense (the bar above their HP bar). I just forgot about this mechanic.. This is effected by Stun. As this bar decreases, your damage is increased against the enemy. I did not find any benefit to focusing on this stat for damage output because pretty much all attacks work against it effectively but its good to know at least.
2) ATTACK Stat is broken and Hard Caps at 30 bonus points above a weapons base value and Adrenaline Fiend perk from the skill tree counts towards this by giving 15 points when all 4 Adrenaline is filled-- 12 points when 3 are filled. This means most gear that gives more that 15 points is lost value--The Helix weapon Sinner Skull gives up to 40 so it literally loses 10 points permanently. I have a post made about it here in detail with video proving it: https://discussions.ubisoft.com/topic/94830/damage-is-bugged-attack-hard-capped-helix-gear-w-lost-value
Quite simply, be wary about stacking Attack perks. Know that circle runes do not count towards this limit though.
i know right, if ther would have been a limit on the amount of skill points you could spend (which is the case in every other game) the gear would have much more impact.
@asgardian02 agreed with this. I actually was careful for the first 25 or so points I entered on which direction I would take due to expectations of being limited in the skill tree. It was about then I googled and realized we could cap lol.
To some extent, I wouldnt mind capping the skill tree either for all the perks but this of course ruined build diversity with gear and the skill tree just holds way too much weight. I originally came from Ghost of Tsushima (got like 250 hours on that game mainly cuz of Legends) and man is build diversity feel abundant in that game. Its fairly well balanced. You don't have a skill tree but just a greater focus on build optimizations and diversity. Of course, you have some metas but the thing that game did so well is empower the "skills" of the player with a fairly smooth combat system and have the gear be a piece that helps tailor to a persons play-style be it a stealthy assassin, healer, tank, Archer, etc....lots of diversity. So typically, it doesn't matter if you have a great build if you are a sub par player who does not know how to optimize its mechanics while playing. And others can easily see this. That was a game that was just sheer fun to fight in and mess with builds. And MAN was the parry/perfect parry system incredibly satisfying lol. I honestly think open world melee-centric games can learn a lot off of the combat mechanics GoT implemented.