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Literally hammer or breaded axe deals way more damage than Excalibur. It's kind of bad joke. How could you screw up legendary weapon? Also have you ever tried to use greatsword in real life?. They mostly don't even reach 2kg weight [usually around 1,5kg] so why in the game they are so freakin slow? Even fully spec into Bear Skill Tree greatsword deal very bad damage compared to other weapon types. Heavy Dual Whield improves it just a bit but still they are weak. Balance weapons properly Ubi.
xtracker85 46 posts
Yeah, I noticed this too. All the greatswords seem to hit for around the same damage as one-handers, only slower. And this is at max level with weapons that are fully upgraded as well. It's really weird. I still like using the greatsword/shield combo since it looks cool, but I seem to kill stuff much much slower than a hammer or a dagger. Not sure if there's some wrong damage calculations or not, 'cause a 2-hander should be hitting things much harder.
BJgobbleDix 51 posts
@rhadamentx this is true and not true to an extent.
Greatswords have the hardest hitting Heavy Finisher in the game--its actually 50% more than Spears and about 10% to 25% over Hammers and Dane Axes. For a 3 Hit Combo (2x Light then a Heavy Finisher), they deal more damage and Stun Damage than a lot of weapons excluding Hammers. Hammers have one of the highest damages in general. You're just giving up a lot of range in exchange and typically your first Heavy hit knocks enemies out of range for the second and Finisher.
One of the reasons 1x or 2x Light with a Heavy Finisher is effective is because 1) you get to the Finisher much faster (hardest hitting strike for most weapons) than burning 2x Heavy attacks. And 2) you can replenish Stamina in-between attacks thus constantly following up without having Speed and Attack being cut due to Stamina loss.
Flails actually follow a different formula due to being unique. Their Heavy attacks are adequate. But the Light Finisher attacks are some of the hardest hitting combos in the game. Due to a slow wind up time, it's best to start with 1 or 2 Heavy attacks then lead into a Light Finisher with them.
Here is actually a result of most of the weapons and their Base Damages for Light Combos to give you an idea of how they perform. Note this is Power Level 1 (thus Base) but the relationship stays the same for Level 409--meaning if you see damage drop or increase half way through a combo, that never changes. Just much higher output of course. I've tested Heavy Combos but never wrote them down in a spreadsheet. Just messed with them on calculators so I know the relationship there as well. Also note, I do not know the exact formula for calculating damage. Melee, Light/Heavy, and Attack all are main contributors to damage output (plus Difficulty will adjust this) but the formula is not straightforward from what I can tell. Of course Defense bar also plays a role. One thing I've tested and does not change much or at all is the percent difference between Damages within a combo. In other words, the 3rd and 4th strike of a Greatsword will always be about 1.5x more than the 1st and 2nd strike. Thus damage scale equally as you increase power levels. This makes figuring out optimal combo configurations easier.
P.S. - Greatswords also have the best Offhand skill in my opinion. Its an unblockable attack with solid damage that can stagger, knockdown, and open up almost any shielded enemy type (not sure about Zealots though). But have tested this plenty against Elite shield bearers. Very effective against them for followup attacks.
On Max difficuly enemies like Zealots parry greatsword special left hand charge all the time, also you will have very little time to even use Heavy Finisher. It's too slow. There is usually place for 1-2 hits and then u have to parry or dodge again. So strong heavy finishers still make greatsword bad weapons. They are good vs trash mobs but everything is good vs them.
Also Excalibur effect is very bad. If it was triggered like Mjolnir it would be "fine". Tough the whole blind effect is crappy. As it was suppsed to be "sword that cuts through everything" it would be better if excalibur attacks were un-parryable or ignored defense. That blind on very hard is useless. Most enemies just ignores it, unless they are trash mobs which again doesn't matter.
To make greatswords good they would have to increase speed of heavy finisher and power of light attacks, as light atacks are what is most used in boss fights.
Also Ubi fix the damn Excalibur, it's one of prolly most well know legendary weapons in the world and you made it crappy. Even Surtr helix sword is better or Caroliean or w/e called is better.
davidtsmith333 42 posts
I think you outlined that on point @bjgobbledix . I agree with everything you said there. Just prior to equipping a greatsword my main go-to main hand weapon was a hammer, really nice ones too...and my those hammers are a beast...so fast and deadly and the finishers are to die for. But then I came across the Hel's Damnation pack and being a fan of fire-based weapons and armor I wanted to try that and so I bought it. That came of course with the Surtr sword, a fire-based greatsword and I've been using that armor pack set and greatsword ever since. That sword being already Mystical enhanced and upgraded is a beast which deals massive damage IMO and I love it.
BJgobbleDix 51 posts
@rhadamentx I would agree that everything is strong against, well everything in this game except some bosses and Zealots. The 2x Light Attack and 1x Heavy Attack works against a lot of bosses as well for Great Swords especially if you don't Dual wield them because your Speed is faster and its naturally a fairly quick attack. I use to test it against a handful of bosses. Was a pretty decent combo. Not better than others of course but did well on its own. Shielded Zealots are just a pain due to their quick recovery rates which I kinda hate. The damage of course is amplified into that Heavy Finisher so the first couple attacks feel weaker. But against most content in this game, that combo is their strongest suit against other weapons and is quite effective when built around--shreds Elites quickly. The only adjustment I would make to Great Swords is switch the damage multiplier from the the 3rd and 4th swing with the 1st and 2nd so it follows: 1.5x, 1.5x, 1x, 1x.....this would better complement that play style. I would do the same when dual wielding them too. Then that first strike feels more impactful.
As for Excalibur, yeah its a trash perk. It's less of a Blind and more of an Interrupt. All it does is briefly stagger enemies and its very brief. You get the same effect from Mjolnir except that actually deals lots of Stun Damage and is more reliable. I wouldnt mind a rework to this perk. Surtur Sword is actually the worst Sword in the game because there is a low Hard Cap of 30 points you need for Attack and this is extremely easy to achieve with just 1 Diamond Perk and Adrenaline Fiend. Until this is alleviated, it's a useless perk. Most other Great Swords have usable and effective perks when built around. But it just happens to be the game is too easy to begin with and 95% of gear perks don't hold enough weight in impact of this game vs your Skill Tree sadly. An area that needs rebalanced badly. That and enemy AI so they are more aggressive and deal more damage. They take way too long to attack. This game has better cancel animations for dodging and parrying compared to Odyssey (which helps make the combat much faster) yet Odyssey has more aggressive AI that constantly attacks you.
From my experience greatswords are actually way better when dual wielded. It's stupid ofc but it's a game. If you put 2x 1,7 speed runes in 2nd sword and something like "increase crit with every hit" rune you will attack faster with 2 swords than with one and your crit chance will be higher. Also having 2 same weapon type change combo. In case of greatsword the combo get's way better.
I like using "heal on parry" and 2x crit chance on Excalibur and Scimitar with "increase crit on hit" and 2x speed rune. Scimitar boosts light atk after heavy finisher and Excalibur is very good trash mower. So they work well together. Also Scimitar effects triggers from offhand so you can use Excal in main hand for that "supposed to work blind".