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  • DonJuan2000
    Original poster 10 posts

    I've about 300 hours with Odyssey and almost Level 80.
    Now I've about more than 40 hours with Valahalla. Home Base City Settlement Level 4. I've all the game of AC on PC.

    So, Odyssey was an Almost Perfect Game ! Why you [censored] up so much the gameplay ?
    I like Valahalla too but the gameplay it's a huge step back, for bad.

    - 1st, Combat System in Valahalla is a total [censored] ! A total [censored] ! Sorry, But that's it.
    It just needed some more variations, but it was so very well made in Odyssey. Personally I like even better the ones in AC2, but maybe for a better balanced combat system, Odyssey was really perfect. I'm not looking for a Street Fighter kinda game with AC. And anyway in Valahalla is very bad made

    I don't know where to start. Just look at Odyssey, and make the same next time, just with more variations and coreography for special moves.
    Delete the [censored] food energy stuff during combats and let me DECIDE when I want to use a special move and not just randomly happen. You know, in Odyssey you learn how to do and basicly you decide when to do with some little time you need to “recharge it”. It was perfect so.

    If I want to try to cut head of the enemy with the sword, with a beautiful combat coreography style, really love that one, I want to decide when to try it. At the right time and thanks to the critics attack points, basicly it should always succeed for example. Otherwise will be evaded some way.

    For defence move, parry, evade, shield same way, in Valahalla it's really a total mess [censored], wipe out this awful defence bar, let it be easier and so more realistic, just please back to Odyssey Combat system for all. Thanks.

    - Inventory and exploration. Why you wipe out all the weapons and armors you can find around ?! Why explore and resolve all those misteries just to find a ingot ?! Oh If you are really lucky you can found an hunter armor. Geez you are in England, despite the historical period there was already lots of swords and armors with different styles and properties

    I don't really f**** understand some peoples had problems with that in Odyssey. You can focus on just one favorite set of sword, arch and armor, stay with it and upgrade along the game. And you can just resell or dismantle almost all the others so they will give you lots of money and materials.
    It's wide more rewarding to explore and play in this way that just find a ingot and than be forced to make a very complicate and unlikey weapon upgrade system..... and in Odyssey you can also find lots of legendary swords and armors. In Valahalla are a total mess all those mechanics. Just please, make AC Odyssey great again, thanks ! 😄

    Stop feed the trolls, really !
    Minerals and wood looting etc: as above, just go back to the Odyssey mechanics, thanks ! It was much more fun and rewarding.
    Crafting: this could be an interesting thing to add someway or another.
    Fishing, really appreciated, always wanted in Odyssey. Thank you. But hunting was better in Odyssey. Just add the option to take more things from animals and be able to cook and eat them. Eat and Drink should be more an option, not much a requirement, just to give you more immersion. Maybe it could boost some skills if you do it.

    Graphics and level design: I always loved the Historical design, you managed well to stay at high level despite the littler world map compared to Odyssey.

    On the other hand, I don't know what happend with the Graphic Engine, but it gives me headache. I was able to tweak setting to let it be more comfortable, like turn off v sync, like I always do, lower framerate and turn off deep field during gameplay. But anyway there are still some bad effects like “lens flare” I really don't like and is quite uncomfortable. And maybe some others. Also the camera was really bad settled, I think is just not finished, this is a crazy year I understand that, but please fix it. If you look up you see grass. And often obstacles can be in front you covering everything. It's very annoying.

    Also FIX THE CAMERA, I mean fix it, don't let it move around while you walk. Just as in Odyssey. It could trigger motion sickness or something like that, and in anycase is uncomfortable. Fix it with the character on the center and don't move it !!!

    More cutscenes and cinematic dialogs and less childish and uncomfortable effects during gameplay, trust me it will rock this game.

    Settlement buildings and story with it etc. I really loved this one. It's like a strategy city building game but from a personal view, love it.

    Story: I like the story, well written as always. Just do more sidequests like in Odyssey or other RPG game. There was someones you can find while you explore, but not too much.

    Romans Ruins: I would really love to play an AC during Roman Empire. I really appreciated the attention you given to Roman History and Ruins in Valahalla, really very appreciated. And well designed. Lunden was so great, but not just that. All over the game you can find it, just like was really in ancient time. Thank you !

    Forts: I really love how they worked in Odyssey. I would restart from it with some improvements maybe.
    Battles: I really loved the big field battles you did in Odyssey when you can conquer or defend a region. Just back with something like that. I appreciated anyway the battles to conquer capital forts or city, some siege machine you can use etc. It was very fun, but there was also huge fields battles those times.
    Also ship battle was very well done in Odyssey. There are various bugs in Valahalla with ship battles or are logical design bugs, I don't know, but it don't work either way. Basicly you are the only one to shoot arrows right and sometime it's also broken the aim function.
    Main Quests and Regions: It worked to plan regions exploration when you have to work for alliances, but personally I like more the Odyssey approach that gives you all the freedom you want with lots of sidequests adventures you can find around. I don't really know if I like this direction on another game. I like more freedom and choices. It gives me some choices to do anyway, but it could be done much better. Skyrim is also a good example, some quests was already there, others with game progression.

    Present Time: I really don't understand all the “end world mess again” of the present time in Valahalla. Why do that ? Honestly the best part of it, is when you are able to compare the ancient time and modern time of some place, like AC2 and 3 for example 😄
    You can write a decent adventure story for it, with this approach and without the need of strange things.

    Bounties and Mercenaries: they was very fun and add lots of gameplay hours. There always place for them in any historical period. Bring them back
    Also Arena Games Fighting style, every historical period have their ones.

    Gay: Odyssey managed very well this thing. You are free to do what you want, without be forced into ankward situations and with various grades of freedom I really appreciated. Maybe thanks to the Greek culture, but it was also well put into the game. Arcibald for example, you can have fun with him and his female friend without “the need to be gay”, leaving to your imagination without forcing you into uncomfortable situations the same. You can always choice to don't be involved into gay and you're not involved this way.

    In Valahalla unfortunately there are a couple of very ankward situations, maybe the worse is with your old friend. The fact I have and old close friend of childhood dosen't mean we have to be gay.

    Yes even if you go on with the discussion with him you can say a strong no, but I don't know, I would managed different. BTW Gay Vikings are historycally quite inaccurate.
    Male/Female main character. It's a total mess. Make a Male Profile and a Female profile with some differences along the story. 1st it add another meaning to replay the game, 2nd Male and Female are differents, thanks Gods, there's really not need to fulfill politically correctness crazyness.

    I choiced an only male profile, and this for sure given to me gay ankward situations.
    On the other side I could play with a Female character, but she seems quite like a male, ridiculus expecially for Vikings. And all of that because the game was made in a very ankward and strange male/female mix up way.
    Honestly this is also poor scripting. You can have gay character without force you into gay situations, just write it better. I undestand in a RPG you want to give to gay this choice.

    Or you can even do a game without Gay, it can happen to have a life or a story without it.
    Ubisoft was heavily assaluted by political correctness, and not just them, we know that, just please ignore them. Thank You.

    Aside that last one, I really hope you continue with RPG Direction for AC, as just you did in Odyssey. I say again, Odyssey it was an Almost Perfect Game and you was very good in doing it.

    Thanks for all anyway and God Bless

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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • DonJuan2000
    Original poster 10 posts

    @donjuan2000 Ah and the last one, wipe out Boss Fighting ! It's very annoying. I like much more exploration and adventures in generals without them, just like in Odyssey until you first introduced with Cerbero and overuse them in Valahalla. Don't do it, thanks.

  • katzenkrimis71
    223 posts

    Odyssey it was an Almost Perfect Game.


    I'm the opposite of you. I played Odyssey for 283 hours and I hated it by the time I got to the end of the expansions. In fact, I even quit the game a couple of hours before the finish line because I just couldn't take it anymore.

    For one, the writing in Odyssey is bloody awful. And so is most of the voice acting. Valhalla is much improved in that department. The writing is sick and twisted, even funny at times. And with so many characters dying, it feels much more realistic.

    Secondly, I hated that ridiculous, over-the-top, fantasy expansion that they released, Fate of Atlantis. It was like being stuck in an endless loop of a heaven and hell sandbox. I thought it was never going to end. It reminded me of that 1998 Robin Williams film called, What Dreams May Come. It was the exact same concept. Pure torture to sit through.

    Wrath of the Druids and Siege of Paris will feel much more grounded, and not so absurd. Ubisoft already fulfilled their outrageous fantasies with the inclusion of Jotunheim, so we should be safe for the remainder of this story.

  • DonJuan2000
    Original poster 10 posts

    @katzenkrimis71 if you didn't like it why you played so long ? Sorry if I think you're just trolling 😄

    The game is huge, I took a pause myself too, but it dosen't mean I didn't like it. Quite the opposite I love it, but sometime you need a rest.

    The writing is very good in Odyssey also because is well founded on ancient Greek Literature and Mithology and follow very well that spirit if you mind. You probably lack of knowledge of the game and ancient greek culture or both and/or maybe you don't like it too. But this again dosen't mean is bad. Despite the fact could be improved, Odyssey was very well written too in general.

    Fate of Atlantis is based on Ancient History, like the Plato' writings and very well made based on Plato. And then mixed up with SCI-FI, love it.

    Maybe, I say to them, they could have been done a better representation of the ISU, why they made humans, things like that, they did it a little bit they could have be done more, but anyway it was not so bad. It's very interesting anyway.

    It was little bit long, that's true, but at the end I Like it all that and it was planned to endure for 2 years, so is damnit logical it's a long game and DLCs are long too.... I like long RPG games, and I liked more annual edition, but some dumb players didn't like it. So let us play every year and you do what you want in the rest of the time thanks 😄

    Said that, Odyssey Fate of Atlantis It was very interesting and let us to know lots more about the ISU and THEIR history. I just wanted it was just not all a simulation, I mean in the game, but something more. I would have to be able to visit more of the Atlantis ruins under the sea for example, to know more about what I think was other planets like Elysium and Underworld from where the ISU came from. This is really a lovely plot to develop more. But again, everything was so well reppresented based on Ancient Greek Mythology, History and Plato writings.

    Wrath of the Druids and Siege of Paris are still in develop, the Druids will come out the 15 may, my chinese troll friend 😄 They aren't come out yet 😄

    But maybe I understand what you wanted to say, they would be more history based. Yeah, but Nevertheless I loved Fate of Atlantis. You cannot do a game like Odyssey without those arguments about Greek Mythology and Gods. And probably you also don't like RPG game.
    I also appreciated lots the other Odyssey DLC's.
    I was just sad for something happened there, but at the end that's the spirit of Greek Tragedies.

    Said so, I think will be very unlikey I will play so long Valahalla, but I usually like to explore and don't use fast travel. We will see, anyway like I said, Odyssey was much better.
    I'm not very involved with Valahalla gameplay. We will see.

    And I don't like River raids, I mean why do it ? They don't add much content to the game at all, they also made this ankward secondary boat with exotic stuff you find, not very useful for the main game and also quite lack of history and narrative....oh yeah except for 1 armor you could find. This is quite very ridiculus. It's clearly an idea bad developped. I'm really sorry because I like Ubisoft from many years, I've all the AC Games and really love Odyssey. But for a general analysis I already made a better point with the first post.

  • Garbo3
    778 posts

    @donjuan2000 This is an absurd request Don Juan .
    AC is gone trough a better path in my opinion since origins. I played the whole saga except one game. Oddissey was my fave until Valhalla arrived. Combat requires timing and the loot doesn't rain from the sky as mana.
    Is a matter of taste. You like it or not but there's many gamers that actually do like the fresh air that the last Valhalla brought to the saga and are enjoying this game. No troleamos because we like the game. Your position is what you want , but can't be taken seriously amigo mio.
    Un saludo

    Am talking about removing boss fights.

  • Garbo3
    778 posts

    @donjuan2000 I would like to add theres no trolls around here,I got a feeling you are used to the kind of forums full of fan boys, trolls etc.
    That luckily doesn't happen here. You are free to express your opinion as long as you are respectful and use the SPOILERS. You may have ruined the story for some people.
    To consider yourself a Don Juan you lack manners .
    I agree with you in some points,disagree in others. But am not going to call you troll just because we got opposite opinions.
    Respect señor Juan. To be considered "Don" you need to be respectful and well mannered so people treat you accordingly 😉

  • eternal_vikingr
    8 posts

    I think, to say that Valhalla is a step backwards - nevermind a huge step backwards - from Odyssey is just... absolutely batpoop crazy to me, in any capacity.
    I do not wish to say you're wrong about anything you've said, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs & from the length of your post it's apparent you're passionate about this which I respect & more than appreciate trust me, however looking at it somewhat objectively, Valhalla will always come out on top over Odyssey.
    It is my belief that Valhalla is the first redeeming game in the franchise since, well, Origins - since the games lost their own more-or-less unique identity in favor of the more common RPG-style identity. Valhalla is, for me, a huge step in the right direction for the games. It feels like this game is its own & is getting comfortable in its new home.
    I played Odyssey. Way more than I would like to admit to anyone. But it is not an Assassin's Creed game. I will fight you to the death before I change my mind on that. To me, Odyssey was purely a timesink with an interesting setting. I did not, and never will regardless of game/developer, buy in-game currencies with microtransactions. Everything I done in Odyssey was of my own playtime.

    For maximum clarification, I will address each (what I think is important) point as you have noted them:

    Combat system
    Up until this game (Valhalla), the combat has been... mundane, that is to say, it hasn't been very engaging (sort of plays itself) & more of a chore/grind than anything. Perhaps describing the combat up until now as "means to an end" is the fairest way to say it. I never, ever, played the games for the combat - I was here for the story, characters, setting, the Assassins & their Creed. But now, I really can play Valhalla for pure combat if/when I want to. I'm sure this is owed in part to the setting of the game, but the combat is so much better than any AC game that came before it. The one & only thing I do wish Valhalla had in relation to combat, was more combat execution/finisher animations to spice things up a little.
    "Delete the food energy stuff during combats" - these couple of sentences, I struggle to understand to any degree to actually form a reply to. I'm just gonna say, having to eat food, manage adrenaline, makes the game tenfold more immersive & challenging than any before it. You're not absolutely invincible & if you aren't paying attention or make a mistake, you might pay for that with your life. I totally adore this mechanic & think it could be expanded upon a little more, maybe even give a little more player agency in what they eat, when & why. For example, let's say the "Feast buff" thing just doesn't exist & the player has to decide what they want to cook for specific situations. Instead of collecting mushrooms for rations you could collect them for various types of soups...? I'm not exactly saying you should pick up mushrooms to throw in a pot of soup, I'm saying player agency & decision could play a bigger role in food buffs.
    To address your sentence with "wipe out this awful defence bar, let it be easier and so more realistic": I don't think I have to say much for this. To sum it up though, you're saying "dumb the game down, regress please." I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure nobody wants this. If someone reading this disagrees (who isn't OP) please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Inventory and exploration
    "Why you wipe out all the weapons and armors you can find around" because unlike Odyssey, the team behind Valhalla put effort & care into each armor set & piece to make them look & feel unique. Odyssey was bloated, overflowing with thousands of armor pieces & weapons that were all carbon copies of each other. Even if you say "you can focus on one favorite set," that set was still a copy of another with a change of color. I don't have to say anything else here.

    "Minerals and wood looting etc: as above, just go back to the Odyssey mechanics, thanks ! It was much more fun and rewarding."
    You like mindless grinding? You think that's fun & rewarding? Fair enough.

    Everything else in your post, I cannot form an opinion on. Some points I feel like are simply nonissues, or so benign.
    One thing I would like to address though before I finish this post, is this:
    "More cutscenes and cinematic dialogs and less childish and uncomfortable effects during gameplay, trust me it will rock this game."
    This point, this one point, is probably the only thing I can wholeheartedly agree with. For me Odyssey had this same problem, Valhalla nowhere near the same extent, but still it is present.
    I cannot express how I feel about this without a comparison to how The Witcher 3 handles conversations with its important characters. Kingdom Come Deliverance also comes to mind when I think about this.
    In these games, we play as humans. Humans are social creatures & learn from each other by conversing, sometimes for hours on end. Now, I don't want to be talking to someone in an Assassin's Creed game for literal hours. But I feel it would go such a long way for immersion if sometimes we just had to, for example... sit down, talk to people, maybe about their problems, their demons, their desires, or maybe just talking among a group of people about some plans, discussing what could possibly go wrong with certain plans & how to remedy issues with said plan(s). I'm not saying that we need some complex system in place... just, even the illusion that we play as fully grown adults, doing adult things, like... talking.

    To finish this up, appropriately, I'm gonna address OP's last point in his post. I cannot, on any planet, agree that Odyssey was an "Almost Perfect Game," & I think, again, it's absolutely batpoop crazy to even almost think that. This might be a very hot take, but I think Odyssey is... a tarnish on the AC franchise, that's being nice about it - I honestly don't think it should be considered canon in any regard. Lowkey I think it should be forgotten about. Not hating, but it blows my mind that somebody can hold that game in such high regard & compare Valhalla to it, saying Odyssey done X better than Valhalla please bring X from Odyssey back. To me, Odyssey is extremely extremely extremely subpar to actually, any Ubisoft game.

  • Fortyniners354
    46 posts

    A rant such as this has appeared on these forums countless times, and I’m getting tired of them. You like Odyssey better than Valhalla? Fine. Everyone has their own tastes. But why spend time writing such a massive diatribe? As for me, I hated Odyssey. I started playing it three different times, and each time I quit before level 20. I’m not going to spend time explaining why I like Valhalla better. Let’s just say it appeals more to my play style. Now, I assume that Odyssey appeals more to yours. I got it. Let’s just leave it at that.

    375 posts

    In terms of design, graphics, or overall aspect, Valhalla is good, we can almost say that it is better than Odyssey.
    Sadly the game feels empty outside the main story quests. Odyssey has a system of endless exploring, completing contracts, fighting on sea, on land... totally absent from Valhalla.
    when the main story arc is played, Valhalla becomes a dead game or at best a badly designed fishing and hunting simulator. Outside fishing and hunting there are nothing, strictly nothing to do in the game.

  • Dj0rdje12
    36 posts

    The last 3 assassins creed game are my favorite in series and in my top 15 games ever (maybe even top 10 ) because they changed combat , introduced RPG elements and huge open world . For me Valhalla is the best AC game and my second favorite game of all time after Witcher 3 . I would rank them Valhalla > Odyssey >>Origins . The only thing Origins has over those 2 is main character and everything else is worse in my opinion but its still great unique game that allows us to explore Egypt.

    I will explain what I found good in Odyssey and in Valhalla.

    Good thing about Odyssey is :

    • Naval combat is great
    • Mercenaries
    • better loot and customize
    • better perks
    • better settings ( ancient Greece is the most beautiful settings ever )
    • longer side quests
    • weakening nation system
    • probably overall better combat

    Good things about Valhalla are :

    • Raiding is better than conquest battles many times
    • return of shields and dual wielding system
    • better story and characters
    • much better stealth with one hit kills , social stealth , hiding in hay and cloak and hood system that actually works and reduces chances guards will discover you.
    • plenty small puzzles like locked and barred doors , finding way to shot cursed symbol , bringing oil jars.
    • introduction of settlement
    • side quests are short and quick
    • much more side activites like fishing , cairns , mushrooms , stones , flyting , drinking , dice , chasing tatoos.

    They are similar games but Valhalla simply has more side activites , has many puzzles , great stealth , settlement and better story . Thats it those are my reasons why I would put it above Odyssey.

  • pesto.
    185 posts

    I disagree, the combat in both is really good though perhaps not quite on the level of really great fighters like God Of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Nioh etc. But there’s not a massive rift between Valhalla and Odyssey, just slightly different styles.

    The biggest problems I have with both are latency between input and moves though this is improved at 60fps, parry mechanic feeling far too loose (possibly as a result of the input latency), and combat overall being far far far too easy, which results in the games becoming brawlers rather than assassins creed games where open combat should be either just one approach of many or the final option when strategic assault has failed.

    Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla are great games but regardless of the three progression trees you only get to play as a warrior, never a hunter or Assassin. You do not set traps, funnel enemies or engineer situations to create a downfall for your opponents, you do not use shadows, stealth or the environment.

    If opponents were more skilled or attacked in greater numbers and if it required greater skill to pull off then direct combat wouldn’t be the only solution to every problem. In fact you’re so overpowered that there’s rarely a reason to even use the combat abilities, which is fine as diving into menus mid combat isn’t the most intuitive approach (I’d prefer combos).

  • Cell1e
    174 posts


    I agree with most of what you wrote, I loved Odyssy so much that I was extrememly disappointed with Valhalla, in many ways the development team that did Valhalla went in completely oppostite directions and that probably threw me big time, I am enjoying Valhalla more now and am trying to appreciate it for what it is instead of what it isnt.

    I gave up on Valhalla back in November and didnt get to the end so Im starting it again now and trying to complete it in time for the druids dlc as I live in Ireland and Im really interested to see where the dlc locations are.

    So far I'm enjoying it a little more, just wish they hadn't nerfed the armour and weapon drops so much. I don't want to go to Asgard because there are no armour/weapon rewards there, so I'm dodging that quest completely 😄

  • Ken_Koerperich
    64 posts

    Actually both of these are poo!

    Hasn't been a good AC since since 3 was released.

    They all started getting to "In your face" combat style.

    MTX started taking over.

    IMO story became "redundant"

    375 posts

    @ken_koerperich Sorry dude, I might shock you but I dont care, and most of us here dont care, about AC. We're here for a RPG. And we will judge Odyssey and Valhalla as a RPG.
    It's called AC Odyssey or AC Valhalla, we see only "Odyssey" and "Valhalla". RPG games. Since Origins, AC games are not AC anymore (the way you understand it, and I respect your opinion/tastes in term of games), and if they still were, I wouldnt be here replying to your post 😉

    But you're right! It's all about that: it seems Ubisoft doesnt know what they want to do: do they want us to play an AC game, AKA ligh-RPG game, or do they want their games to be real RPG games? Origins and the Odyssey gave us the feeling that they wanted their games to be RPG. But one step forward, two steps backward, Valhalla tends to go in the "ligh RPG" category. It's not our fault, we're just facing an editor who doesnt seem to know what he wants really.

    At the end of the day, you're here because you thought it's an AC game, and you're disappointed, and I'm here because I thought it's a RPG, and I am disappointed too 😕

  • Ken_Koerperich
    64 posts

    @torfinr Completely understand....that's why this is going into the dumpster once ESO:Black Wood comes out.

    I will feed my RPG/ONLINE needs, and now they are adding the "Companion" system, so in essence, I can solo, BUT not really be solo...

    Can't wait...This is just filler for now...probably why I'm at 120+ hours and still only to Essex....Got like 4 "area's" to clear before I even head to find "my brother"....LOL!

    375 posts

    @ken_koerperich Very interesting what you say here! you said ESO: Black Wood, I should have a look at it 🙂

  • Ken_Koerperich
    64 posts

    @torfinr End of June, look for the "Complete" edition for $69 bucks. It has pretty much everything from Day 1 content up to BW release...And anything it don't have you can use the "saved" money from buying big pack now, to get what you are missing.

  • Cell1e
    174 posts


    Oh I cant wait for Blackwood to come out, the companion system will be wonderful. There's gonna be rooo-mance too!! 😄

  • Garbo3
    778 posts

    @cell1e what am missing here? Whats blackwood?

  • Ken_Koerperich
    64 posts

    @garbo3 Elder Scrolls Online aka Skyrim -"ish" MMORPG....Releases June 22....New Champion System, Companions Added...I believe this release will make the 6th expansion....All for $69....And if you're a RUSHER, you can YT how to do it, and get to end game content/pvp/dungeons in less than 50 hours...Tons of things in game. Crafting, PvP, PvE, Dailies, Weeklies, Solo or Group Dungeons, Massive PvP Zone Group Dungeons, Tons of Builds, 10 classes to choose from, Guilds/Clans, King of PvP, so on so forth. Way more in game than this, this is just a quick "stroke" of what's available in ESO... If you're an RPG Online Junky, this is one of the best around, as there is so much to do, that it can become a second job to keep up.

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