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  • Orel....
    Original poster 9 posts

    Yeah, I know you will tell "This game mostly PVE why PVP tho?" because this game fits a player versus player experience. Rouge agents and Agents fighting together always been apart of the game lore. But this game fails to deliver a good PVP experience when it comes to Darkzone aswell as Conflict, and I tell you why.

    • Conflict - The big issue with this thing is that it should be allowed to solo queue only, as most of MMO games does when it comes to "Team Deathmatch" mode. Because there are plenty of premade groups that are just ruining the experience of fast paced PVP experience which can let you test out some things and learn more about the fights around DZ.
    • Darkzone - My big issue was the separation they made. - Imo it lacks of players, 12 players are server? You can easily reach high manhunts while just camping on some spawns. That's because the lack of group fights that was a big part if I remember on TD1.
    • Weapons/Sets - Momento.. uh this thing is a good thing in PVP and a bad thing, bad cause of it's stacks and good because well, you know why it's good in PVP. nowadays on PC I see every second build holds a momento. And about weapons, well Famas is the current META, which can take over most of the weapons. Instead of maybe each month. or each week buff and debuff random variant of weapons so you force a dynamic meta instead of just seeing the same builds, doing the same things and eventually becoming depressed toxic kids that think that broken builds are their skills talking [censored] towards others in darkzone chat and more.


    The PvP of this game really need attention. It's I think a big part of "End-game" Experience imo.

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    Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

  • Metal_Greg
    89 posts

    they were on the right track with the occupied DZ. separate DZs are fine as long as each DZ is a different kind of mode. like how bout one where there is a constant EMP for all those people who don't like skills.

    also, going rogue should be a choice. Rogues are literally enemies of the division and yet after the timer is over you're totally fine. after you go rogue you should be permanently rogue until you hack the network to return to SHD status. so when you go rogue there wouldn't be a timer and you could just go about the DZ just being a rogue. it would also encourage less going rogue behind someone and what not because after the first time you go rogue you wouldn't get the chance.
    so basically, the same way it works now but without the timer.

    but most of all, bring back the freakin thieves den. Why was this feature removed?? it was such a cool thing.

  • AU_Nexus691
    8 posts

    I think you will find there will be next to nothing done with the PVP especially now that Redstorm are flat out making Heartland , Div 2 PvP is finished sorry to say and what players are left are few and far between anyway

  • Metal_Greg
    89 posts

    @au_nexus691 We can only hope, then

  • AU_Nexus691
    8 posts

    @metal_greg once Heartland is released the PVP community will all move over to it , from what I have heard from an Alpha tester of Heartland the gameplay was really good and redstorm are going to be using a sophisticated Anticheat system which is something Massive failed to use in Div 2...

  • RaciaIAdhesive-
    65 posts

    @orel Conflict should be re-worked all together. Conflict should take place within the open world Districts and not their own map. I.e Downtown East would be a map. 8v8 with a gamemode like Escort. SHD agents have to escort a civilian. Rogues try to kill them. Just spitballing with gamemodes, but either way Each District should be it's own map.

    Agreed to an extent with the Darkzone. At times it can be very fun and enjoyable. I do not think they should have had 3 separate DZs. Maybe we'll see a map extension with DZ extensions with added player count. I only played the first Division a few months ago, can't speak on the PvP in that DZ. I think the biggest problem in the DZ now is the amount of players using meta shield builds. Can't really compete unless you're using a shield build yourself.

    The current meta with Weapons/sets now is rather annoying. Just about every player pops a shield with In-sync and a Famas.

  • RaciaIAdhesive-
    65 posts

    @metal_greg Agreed with this. I think once a player goes rogue, they have to hack X number of terminals in order to return to SHD status, even if they're killed.

  • ModalThread611
    127 posts

    @orel I am pretty sure they are not worried about pvp, I mean look at the current state of it.

  • XMdead
    135 posts
    they were on the right track with the occupied DZ. separate DZs are fine as long as each DZ is a different kind of mode. like how bout one where there is a constant EMP for all those people who don't like skills.

    also, going rogue should be a choice. Rogues are literally enemies of the division and yet after the timer is over you're totally fine. after you go rogue you should be permanently rogue until you hack the network to return to SHD status. so when you go rogue there wouldn't be a timer and you could just go about the DZ just being a rogue. it would also encourage less going rogue behind someone and what not because after the first time you go rogue you wouldn't get the chance.
    so basically, the same way it works now but without the timer.

    but most of all, bring back the freakin thieves den. Why was this feature removed?? it was such a cool thing.

    I think you are onto something good here. Especially the idea of going rogue and staying rogue from the moment you enter the DZ until you exit it.

    I would even say that rogues should not see non-rogues in the DZ, except for maybe one of the DZs where you could only go rogue as a solo player. That would make the DZ as much fun for non-PVP'ers as it is in Division 1, and reduce the "let's prey on the unprepared" mindset that ruins the DZ in Division 2.

  • oggie28
    1 posts
    Banned
    This post is deleted!
  • ModalThread611
    127 posts

    @xmdead So you want a pve only dz. It sounds like you want to enter and take zero risk. The entire point is when you enter you take the same risk as everyone else. You are supposed to be ready when you enter. That is on you to be geared and ready for it. We have conflict if you need to learn how to pvp.

  • XMdead
    135 posts
    @xmdead So you want a pve only dz. It sounds like you want to enter and take zero risk. The entire point is when you enter you take the same risk as everyone else. You are supposed to be ready when you enter. That is on you to be geared and ready for it. We have conflict if you need to learn how to pvp.

    Close. Similar to the one from Division 1 (that was fun) but improved. The ideal would be separate DZs or separate DZ modes:

    (1) Clan warfare, where real multiplayer PvP competition can happen. Only preassembled teams.

    (2) Random multiplayer groups PvP. No preassembled teams to avoid organized trolling. If preassembled teams are allowed, they only encounter preassembled teams with the same number of members.

    (3) Singlelayer PvP.

    (4) PvE only DZ where the NPCs are tougher, similar to how the Division 1 DZ is most of the time, and is lots of fun. Or as an alternative an option to turn off the daily DZ Projects and get other projects instead.

    The idea is to let those that want PVP have meaningful PvP instead of the massive abuse you have today with troll teams preying on weaker solo players, and those that want PvE have it too without losing the daily missions.

    In other words to avoid what solo players and small teams do today that really helps nobody: In D1 they go into the DZ, pickup no drops as they do the dailies and when assaulted by trolls they give the attacker the finger and allowing themselves to be killed without a fight, knowing that they lose nothing and the attacker gains nothing. In D2 the finger is in the direction of the lame DZ by simply never entering it because for them it is a cesspool that is not worth their time.

    Wouldn't you agree that a DZ design that is interesting for everyone is much better than a DZ that is only interesting for trolls?

  • TxDieselKid
    205 posts

    Boy do I have a lot to say here.... LOL

    D1's DZ was for sure the better of the 2. If they would have just split it in to 2 different ones, and had the ability to go rogue only in one, I think that would have made a ton of people more happy. I always suspected that the DZ was what end game was supposed to be for, but the fact that it is not regulated at all (which I know is how it's supposed to be) pushes people away because it's forced PvP in a way. People would love a common area like the DZ without the ability to be flagged up on, and no, the LZ does NOT offer what I am meaning. The problem with this is it splits the playerbase up.

    I'm not opposed to the way the rogue mechanic is handled now, I just think the timer needs to last around 5 minutes before flipping back. Killing a non-rogue should make that timer last an additional 5 minutes or until death. Additionally, rogues should have a very heavy weighted agro mechanic from the NPC's in the area. In D1 there was actually an attribute for that, and I'm talking it should be +200% agro from NPC's in the DZ the instant they hit that button.

    Someone mentioned Heartland. No. The D2 playerbase still in the DZ/Conflict will not move over. Just as there's still a good number of people in the D1 DZ, there will be a lot of people who don't like what Heartland brings to the table, and will want to use all the gear they grinded in D2. We need to actually SEE what Heartland is about, enough with the rumors.

    Conflict is not horrible, but we need 2 new maps thrown in the rotation every 3-4 months or so. On the 1 year anniversary update (WONY) they should have brought over Last Stand. Conflict is basically Skrimish from D1, and is the less preferred PvP mode in that game. We have been on the same Conflict maps for far too long.

    I think overall, there needs to be a bigger difference/balance in what gear does in the LZ from the DZ. I know and understand why dev's don't want to make gear work different in the 2 areas, but as a result, we get a lesser experience.

    Additionally, the TTK absolutely must be lengthened. Zero question about that. Not to D1 levels, but longer than it is now.

  • ModalThread611
    127 posts

    @xmdead I like the current pve/pvp DZ. I never want that to change. The devs have made it clear you are supposed to be ready for player interactions good or bad. The DZ is an area you are supposed to be pvp ready.

  • DutchLMB4ever
    158 posts

    @xmdead
    "A PvE DZ where the enemies are tougher"
    Like the open world?

    "Knowing they lose nothing and the attacker gains nothing"
    Oh like the open world?

    "Wouldn't you agree that a DZ that is interesting for everyone is much better"
    You mean like the open world?
    -----------------------------------------------------
    - The Dev's already made a BIG DZ for PvE players, which is the open world in this game.

    - With tougher world tier difficulties for the "badboys".
    Dz is always normal mode, open world can be heroic mode.
    (That means you can get 3x tougher enemies in your really big PvE "DZ")

    - And Control Points to look like the ones in the DZ.
    Better yet, they're even bigger then the one's in DZ.
    They also mixed in the flare gun stuff so it feels like you're about to extract.
    But instead of a helicopter, you call for Allies that will hold the CP after the fight.
    (Because there is no reason to extract non contaminated items)

    - They even put in Rogue NPC'S that will attack you AFTER every other enemy is dead. (Because that's the smartest tactic an "ex Division agent" can come up with)
    And besides that, if they manage to kill you, they don't steal your loot and you don't lose gained loot or xp.
    Oh yeah, and they don't camp the spot where they killed you, they dissappear immediately.
    (Risk free...for everyone)
    -------------------------------------------

    The Dark Zone is already weaker then it should be.
    It is supposed to be The Wild West in there.
    No Rules...non at all.
    Everything is fun & cool until it's not.

    1. No button to go rogue, you just start shooting.

    2. No warning that a Rogue is nearby.

    3. No Friendly fire.
    (A) If a team mate decides to kill you he/she just shoots you. (No leaving the team first)
    (B) This would also be for when Rogue's OR SHD's multigroup they don't spray and pray on top of eachother like: 'Mine,mine,mine,mine,mine,mine' and everyone must position themselfs Tactical.

    4. drones/turrets(seekermines/fire flies) shouldn't work as you are in a Dead Zone and disconnect from I.S.A.C.
    - Therefore the drone/turret(seekermine/fire fly) controller in the White House can't see/move/shoot.
    - We should only be able to use skills that we control ourselfs like the:
    Shield/sticky bomb/chem launcher/traps/decoy (and maybe the pulse I'm 50/50 on that)
    - The disconnect is also the reason you can go Rogue in the DZ and you don't get "fired" when you come out.

    Everything walks around in there.
    - Lion/Wolf pack's.
    They do whatever they want.

    - Orka's
    They play with their prey.

    - Tiger's
    They get you from behind.

    - Piranhas
    Come in big groups.

    - Eagle's/Great White's/Lone wolf's
    Alone and strong

    - Snake's
    Sneaky and strong
    (YT: Iranian spider tailed viper. 1min 20sec)

    - Vultures/Maggots/Crabs
    They pick clean whatever is left behind.

    - And in between that, every other animal
    They do whatever is needed to survive.
    Attack/Run/Play dead etc.

    But now we have handbag Chihuahua's and other house pets that want to go into the jungle only without it's dangers.
    Not gonna happen, stay safe inside... or in this case outside, like the good boy you are...

  • XMdead
    135 posts

    Fair points.

    Then the only thing that is needed is a setting to let you turn off every DZ notification and DZ daily project. Once you turn it off you would still see the DZ in the map and the checkpoints... and absolutely nothing else DZ related.

    Those that can't stand the D2 DZ don't need to be constantly pestered with UI trash related to the DZ.I It is annoying.

  • Sock_Monkey
    334 posts

    Talking about the state of PvP in this game: I had the funniest thing happen. I was in the DZ and it was pretty dead, so I was going to try the usual clear some landmarks, extract some crap (for the XP), deconstruct it, lather, rinse, repeat.
     
    I try to extract and there's one player who does the thing everyone hates the most: hides, stays quiet, then waits till you are most vulnerable or in a "hooking-loot-on-the-rope" animation, then turns rogue and easily kills me. Always in the back, and always when I am unable to defend or fight back. Steals all my stuff every time.
     
    OK, it's the DZ, so after the second time I quietly move to another DZ, and within a few minutes he's there, doing the same thing. I move again, and a few minutes later, same thing. This is the kind of annoying behavior that pisses off everyone that dislikes the DZ, so ask "Are you stalking me?"
     
    He says "No. This game is dead. Almost no one plays in here anymore."
     
    So I say "If you want to PvP say something. But this sneaking around and waiting till I am unable to defend myself is pretty poor sportsmanship."
     
    He responds "I play this game to make sure no one else will."
     
    And that, in a nutshell, sums it up. He's unable to make the connection between his complaint about how "dead" the game is and his admission he plays as crappily and pathetically as possible with a goal of driving other players away.
     
    I was as surprised by his complete admission as I was disappointed by his inability to connect those simple dots.
     
    Seriously, to anyone that reads this and thinks like that: What. Are. You. Thinking?


  • ModalThread611
    127 posts

    @sock_monkey I think he feels so angry at how the devs have let the game fail so he chose to troll. It is a love and hate thing with the game. Stil can you not admit how the devs have abandoned the game, the devs killed pvp long ago. I am not condoning what he was doing by any means. I mean they won't even talk about pvp, it has been over a year and just nothing. "We are looking at traps....." That is it. Oh and we are making changes that will affect all of the game. Just communicate some plans to balance pvp, just something. Time and again they just show they really do not care.

  • XMdead
    135 posts
    @sock_monkey I think he feels so angry at how the devs have let the game fail so he chose to troll. It is a love and hate thing with the game. Stil can you not admit how the devs have abandoned the game, the devs killed pvp long ago. I am not condoning what he was doing by any means. I mean they won't even talk about pvp, it has been over a year and just nothing. "We are looking at traps....." That is it. Oh and we are making changes that will affect all of the game. Just communicate some plans to balance pvp, just something. Time and again they just show they really do not care.

    Because of how PvPvE is implemented (mainly that you can instantly turn rogue instead of being rogue since you enter the DZ) what this game has is not PvPvE, it is DEV-sponsored trolling.

    Most people don't like trolling - not even those that like PvP - so they stay out of the DZ, and little by little true PvP in the DZ dies out.

    And when you try to give ideas about how to make PvP be real for those who want it (and avoid it for those who don't) the ones that love trolling come out on the forum and and shoot down anything that might make PvP fun by eliminating trolling behaviors.

    The trolls got what they wished for even if they are too stupid to realize that they are the cause. They killed PvP. And the DEVs are the ones that sponsored that death by failing to fix the flawed design. There is much more that is needed, but even the simple change to going in/out of rogue mode only at checkpoints would solve the worst problems. Ensuring that you face people similarly equipped to you and in teams equivalent to yours would solve further problems by making the fights fair instead of a trollfest... and that is what would truly make PvP attractive, people want fair competition, not sleazy ways to abuse others.

  • Sock_Monkey
    334 posts

    @modalthread611 Maybe, but trolling as a way to protest the state of the game is pretty ineffective, and serves about the same purpose as violent looting does as a form of protest.

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