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been browsing for some info on this but its close to non existant , found a couple of Xcels30 posts in the past about it and that was it .
does anyone has any hard data on this ? or did any tests ?
what im interested in is seeing that circle tighten a bit on my shotguns , does weapon handling help ? or is it better to go full accuracy?
i will do some tests myself later but i was just curious about others experience.
@n3mb0t Shotguns are weird but to sum up. Yes, increasing accuracy will make so the circle tightens make them have less spread and be more accurate now i will elaborate further on some details. In case you don't currently know weapon % gives an equal amount of the same % to multiple stats, so 10% weapon handlings = 10% for all these following stats: accuracy, stability, reload speed and weapon switch speed (i want to also say weapon aim speed but this one i am not sure so i keep it here while the others i am sure).
Easy way to check this is to use the Named petrov brand chest peice that has perfect braced talent, that should give you i believe over 50% weapon handling while on cover, from there you it's easy to just aim out of cover and then aim while in cover and see the difference on the reticle size. Shotguns have low modifer for accuracy but with that much weapon handling it will be pretty visible
Side note about accuracy in general, guns have their accuracy modified depending on your state: Standing still outside of cover, moving outside of cover, standing still in cover, moving while in cover. Nedless to say standing still always gives better accuracy and so does being in cover, each weapon type also has it's own modifier for each of these states so it's harder to spot this with an LMG or AR then it is with an rifle that gives a big drasticly bloom.
Shotguns in general have really low modifier for these states and even then each individual WEAPON has a different value, case in point take a double barrel shotgun and something else like a spas or any other shotgun (except another double barred shotgun). Check the accuracy with each position and you will see that the shotgun with the best accuracy while not moving on cover is actually the double barrel, but at the same time it's the shotgun with the worst range drop off meaning that accuracy is not that useful at all since you will lose all damage pretty fast even if hitting at 15m or higher
I guess it'll depend on the shotty in question. A pump m870 v an AC12 for instance would gain differently from weapon handling with the AC12 benefiting the most. I'm not so sure accuracy for a shotty is a primary concern as at 10m the error growth coming from the cone and range doesn't generate a lot of influence and at 15m without mitigating mods you're not doing much damage if any. For auto shotguns I'd look for stability first but on a pump maybe accuracy(?). What I prioritise for them is reload speed, mag size and RoF but if you're trying to achieve something specific with a specific shotty then testing it out is probably the only quick way to found out if it'll work for your intended goal.
Interested if anyone made the Rock 'n Roll or any other AC12 work as I can't seem to get that shotty into a place damage wise where I'd let it replace any other shotgun.
@xcel30 thank you for your input on this , what im trying to do is fine tune/improve a headhunter shotgun build , i know very well all the stuff on what and how weapon handling works but i wanted to hear about other people experiences on it concerning the use on shotguns.
just for reference im using a m870 at very close ranges , i just wanna make sure i maximise the chance of hitting most of the pellets to the head.
@latenitedelight Yep, I can see that working in that build, nice. That thing bounces all over the place so weapon handling will work a treat for the stability, I guess accuracy will tighten the reticle bloom so it should have some impact if your goal is HS with a Rock n' Roll. I don't know by how much though? I really want that in a run 'n gun build though and that's where I keep failing with it. What playstyle are you predominantly in when running that?
@richardoshea i also tryed the rock n roll and similar auto shotguns and although i found them somewhat fun to use for me concerning shotguns its either go big , with the 1.6 M ones , or go home.
this said you sure can make a acs12 work but there are always better options if you are playing close range IMO.
LateNiteDelight build for the rock n roll is for fun i guess as he has protection from elites and can be in the middle of the street calmly blasting faces , with my PFE build i use the scorpio for obvious reasons , build is tailored for rogues and hunters and there is nothing better to kill them.
@n3mb0t I agree about the damage part and go big or go home, and that's kind of where I feel it keeps failing. It's no 1.6m M870 or Spaz 12, and it's no Tsunami or Six 12 either. With that mag size and rate of fire I keep telling myself that it should rock but I usually end up just rolling my eyes at it I have seen it used in an interesting way long range with oportunistic for tagging but niche as hell imho. I just love its sound when firing tbh and I want it alongside my BM AK (also a bad [censored] sound) so that I at least sound awesome while I play
I feel that it needs a damage buff.
@richardoshea if it had a damage buff i suspect it would become too OP for anyhting close range , i guess it was designed to be fun and probabaly more useful in low dificulty content than heroic or more , there has to be weapons for all sort of players and the ACS12 is IMO the ideal shotgun for people running lower dificulties , trying to make it work over other options in heroic or more is just an exercise in theory crafting but i doubt it will ever beat the high damage ones.
There are two decent builds you can make with ACS-12 but they are not head hunter ones as you would like, for that one the M870 the way to go, one is the very obvious one that is just playing it straight with hunters fury, shield and memento backpack like most people play that gear set, the part about having larger magazine will actually help, but with this one better not really invest accuracy and instead weapon handling or raw damage is the way to go.
The second way where you can really make a Rock 'n Roll named one shine even if bit trickier is actually using striker gear set and go right in the face of enemies, the rof and weapon handling boost from the will become a force to be reckoned with and if you manage to tame that monster you will be dishing out A LOT of damage by getting A LOT of stacks very fast, but you will need to be point black people to avoid missing since even with the extra handling the gun will jump a lot due the rof boost, it will be great to tackle heavies as a full magazine of the Rock 'n Roll should be enough to break whatever armor piece you are aiming at
You could try also a opprtunistic backpack to be a bit more team oriented and debuff people in any of those two
Small edit: Since i saw you people talking about heroic content, you can mostly kill one enemy per ACS-12 magazine in heroic 4 man groups with the right boosts, you will just run out of ammo almost every encounter tho
LateNiteDelight 443 posts
Yeah, my build is mostly for fun - I mow the Red/Purple with EB, then get some facetime with Rock'n'Roll on the Elites.. there is no gun more fun to fire than the ACS-12!
I've also had success with it using Hunter's Fury or Striker's [as noted by Xcel]. You just need to play <7m, and it's one of the few times I allow myself a Crusader Shield. I prefer the Tsunami on my HF build though, since I use it with Chatterbox for my Speed Run build [since those are only on Hard difficulty]. The ACS-12 is basically a more powerful Vector, but the Scorpio/SixTwelve is stronger - I just prefer the full-auto [I play it like a short range SMG].
I would agree the M870 is the go to for damage/headshot - I have a few with different talents [I usually go Up Close & Personal]. I've never honestly tested how Accuracy works for shotguns - I have a SASG with Optimal Range for the Third Attribute, as well as a Send-Off I had planned to get around to testing with.
And yes, Opportunistic is great with the ACS-12, since it's giving you 10% multiplicative damage after the first volley - it's what I used until Memento came along. Excellent for groups [Opportunistic, I usually pair with the G28 for tagging on ranged sets or White Death], though I think the Scorpio is more helpful to your teammates.
Kanaima 11 posts
@n3mb0t After playing around with my White Death/M870 Headhunter build for quite some time now, I personally think there are much better stats than handling for such a build and that all you're really benefiting from with it is the improved reload.
For the longest time I had handling rolled on all of my pieces, and after getting a Braced chest and max handling rolled on every gear slot I decided to check the spread against a wall. The difference between 98% handling and 0% on an M870 is negligible, especially at the ranges where you're realistically going to be shooting from and you can't have Braced and Headhunter at the same time.
I've since swapped to armor regen in place of handling, with only my Chainkiller still having handling rolled on it and I haven't noticed a difference in accuracy.
The best advice I can give would be to stop moving before pulling trigger. Much like an MMR, it seems shotgun accuracy is quite heavily impacted by movement:
yeah i do that often (stopping) as i noticed it a long time ago , its also common sense i carry over from other shooting games , thanks for the advice though , its really not as obvious as it seems and im sure someone will benefit from that advice.
how much HSD do you have on your shotgun when using that build ? mine is tailored to give the minimum150% to proc the full hadhunter pellet , there is no space for no other stats , its either HSD or WH mostly for the reload speed and my doubts on accuracy were just me trying to get even better pellet spread , or lack of it, so i can better deal with 4 man scalings or legendary.
Kanaima 11 posts
@n3mb0t I have 170% with the one I use the most: Punchdrunk, Memento, Chainkiller, Providence gloves, Belstone holster and Belstone knees. My alternate one replaces the gloves with Airaldi and the holster with Badger and has 155%. All have HS/armor regen except the Chainkiller which is HS/handling, until I find a replacement.
I use this for solo or 2 person legendary though, so my use case is different.
For 4 player legendary I use 4pc Tip of the Spear with Chainkiller and an Airaldi Vigilance backpack all rolled with HS and then handling on chest/pack. White Death/Nemesis with a sawed off as my sidearm (which is bizarrely extremely accurate for a shotgun alongside the double barrel.)
Imagine_Brata 171 posts
12x scope and 24% optimal range is not so good either
@imagine_brata That's a shame. I'd just started thinking along those lines too but yeah, you're M870 build from your CP run seemed to perform much better. I might spend some time on this myself as I'm a bit injured atmo so limited game time. Might turn on what's left of my neural netwrok and see what it poops out!
I should make an extra comment regarding the Send-off shotgun, which hilariously can be used at close-mid ranges (from 10-20m) if you use something like perfectly braces and stack accuracy on you gear since it has the perfect optimal range talent, you get something like that is the lost link between M1A and the 1887 winchester rifles but that uses buckshot. I mean it's a bit fun to hit people "far" with a shotgun and do decent damage, since hilariously the send-off main problem is just accuracy because the range talent really covers it, but the somewhat lackluster rof and damage due being a pump kinda makes you think that a rifle would be better.