Best posts made by CazBot
This is the second weekend in a row that I could not get through the inventory management minigame of Division 2. I went through weapons and salvaged the weapons that didn't have the potential to be perfect. I went through the 150 armor items in my avatar's backpack and combined them, category by category, with the 300 items in the stash, then salvaged the lesser of each item. This took about an hour, all the time I had to play games. As usual.
Division 2 is broken. There were always quirks, such as bad guys spawning behind you or the fact that you have to pop up out of cover to shoot the suicidal enemy that just ran behind you. I mean c'mon--the suicidal guy is on the same side of the cover as you, why can't you just turn your head and shoot him without popping up out of cover? These are relatively minor issues that should be fixed but, if not, the game is still a good time.
Spending most of my playing time on inventory management is not a viable scenario. I work hard when I am working and I expect to play, mostly, when I am playing. Inventory management is a chore which I would far rather not do.
The king of inventory management games is, of course, Bethesda. They have separate inventory items for pans that are different colors, which don't stack with each other. But you know, having 40 different kinds of armor for each slot is almost as annoying.
If I play for an hour, I will collect probably 100 items. Meaning every time I play this game, I have to muck through my inventory and toss all the inferior items. Which takes at least half an hour, often more. This is a bad drudgery to fun ratio.
I have a couple of suggestions:
- Remove all limits on inventory, or at least the limits on the stash. This way, if I feel like dealing with inventory, I can. If I don't feel like dealing with inventory, I can put it off. This is the only way I can stand to play Bethesda games, by modding out inventory management. Does not seem to be an option in Division 2.
- Simplify inventory. Get rid of half the armor, most of these armor sets are not really viable for high-end play so what is the point. All those guns with the same specs should just be the same guns.
- Get rid of SHD calibration and field research data. The only purpose of these resources is to hinder progress on improving armor and weapons. Not fun, annoying.
- Do statistical analysis of the inventory items in the game. Anything that is useless, ditch it. Armor that nobody uses, ditch it. Streamline.
- Get your head in the game. Play the game and see for yourself how boring and time-sucking your inventory management has become. Stay on top of things, because video games are the art form and the cultural apex of our times. This is your legacy. You have a great game, due to your own hard work. Don't let it all go down the drain over something as pedestrian as inventory management.
I'm just going to acknowledge the two most likely troll responses to this post.
- I am aware that pacing player progress through game content is necessary. I would rather grind than sort doodads, so take that into account.
- Second, I acknowledge that I should have learned faith and acceptance from the gatekeepers of goodness. Well, I didn't. I will do my own thinking and I will question things that don't make sense, and so should you.
- Go ahead and tell me to only pick up items I think I can use, if it makes you happy. I'm not going to do that, because when I'm shooting stuff I don't want to muck through inventory right then and there. I would rather not have to deal with it at all.
Spending precious leisure time mucking through inventory is drudgery, and not at all fun.
I am curious to see what you, the community, thinks about this topic. I might be the only person that hates inventory management games! Well, let me know either way. I would especially like to see thoughtful responses, but I can live with "git gud" and "you don't know anything" as comments if that's what you come up with.
Latest posts made by CazBot
@dagrommit You may have just realized, but I knew it all along. This is why I told you that T-SQL is native to MS Server 2016, remember?
Also, I blame you LOL for getting me interested. I have Visual Studio on this machine, so it wasn't much hassle.
Whatever your other qualities, you do dig into issues. I learned a thing or two from this convo. Hope to run into you in the future, be well.
@dagrommit Lind, the presenter, explicitly states he is using MS Server 2016. This incorporates T-SQL and is, in practice, only used with MS T-SQL (I've seen SNAC, basically the same). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SQL_Server.
I'm not going to pretend the stored procedure code examples are something other due to your recollections. I just now watched the Lind video. If you really care whether this is T-SQL, which it is, then why not grab a code snippet and drop it into a MS SQL dB and see if it works? I did, and aside from getting the normal errors due to undefined parameters, the T-SQL on my machine accepted the code. Why do you care, and why don't you test it so we can have a rational discussion.
@dagrommit I watched the video on server-side memory management and found it fascinating. I am not going to recommend that the community watch the video, as it is very technical.
I noticed that Ubisoft is a Microsoft house: They use MS Server 2016 and T-SQL (pronounced Tee Sequel). Most of the examples from Mr. Lind (the presenter) were actually T-SQL stored procedures, indicating that the bulk of their data is housed in T-SQL or at least managed by T-SQL and MS Server 2016.
For the record, I have personally written massive data warehouses in T-SQL on MS Server 2016. This was for tracking advertising cross charges and to say it was huge does not even give you a hint. Bottom line, I can vouch for Mr. Lind's competence (although his code generally lacked error handling etc.).
When you say, "The entire map is loaded into memory," and you think I am an antique from the days of FoxPro, you are confusing yourself. Let me help. First of all: While I can use FoxPro you would need a gun and a sincere willingness to use it in order to get me to use FoxPro over some flavor of SQL. MySQL is free, for the love of everything good and holy. Why wouldn't I use at least MySQL?
The map is not in T-SQL, it is in a proprietary game engine called Snowdrop. The server is MS Server 2016, but the map data is not housed by T-SQL. Whereas virtually all the other data in the game is housed in T-SQL. I have no expertise in gaming map data storage or manipulation. Neither do you, incidentally. Luckily, the map data has nothing to do with our conversation.
However, since the rest of the game data is housed in T-SQL, I feel reasonably confident in discussing the rest of the game data--especially inventory.
I did see the memory limitations you correctly cited on the X-Box and various flavors of gaming boxes. For this reason, I am going to admit that you are correct that individually-carried loot must be limited. So you have forced me to concede part of my demands, and for that you get a measure of respect.
However, there is no reason whatsoever for a limit on stash space, which is housed server-side in T-SQL.
Bottom line, dagrommit has forced me to change my request from "unlimited inventory" to "unlimited stash space".
@richardoshea Quality post, I thank you for it.
I will go through my stash and discard anything that does not have the potential to be perfect. You are absolutely right, there is zero chance of me using most of the crap I have stashed.
That tip alone should save me half an hour a day, believe it or not.
Solid, helpful advice. Sincere thanks.
@dagrommit I do respect your loyalty to the game and your fact-based, civil discussion style. I am addressing your points and I want to be clear that there is no shade being cast on your facts or your logic.
- 40 million players at 2kb each would take up 80 Gig. That's nothing on a server.
- Ubisoft saying that server performance is impacted by inventory space is more likely to mean that they want to slow down player progression but cannot tell the players that. I have extensive experience with far larger datasets, and their story is not credible.
- I am trying to be kind, dagrommit, but the last database to load the dataset into memory was FoxPro, in the 90s. You can easily confirm this with a google search. That kind of dataset is called a "flat file" and is very rare these days.
Bethesda and Ubisoft are the inventory management developers. They use overly convoluted inventory to slow player progression and Bethesda uses it to sell subscriptions. Data is very, very cheap. Unlimited inventory would be a rounding error (in other words, trivial) on the servers hosting this game.