@mymomjust "I agree that they could make things too easy. The EEV was mostly for saving time (instead of walking over to the PC.) The combo of the two definitely allowed for some hilarious stuff in CT, though."

Not only saving time, but to make the game easier as you can hack a computer or a keypad while staying in the dark. But it's a cool and fun feature yeah.

"By "manual grab," I'm saying that the player would need to push (X) in order to grab the nearest/next ledge. Aside from it being more engaging, it also prevents a lot of instances where your avatar keeps grabbing ledges when you simply want to drop."

Okay I understand now, thanks for explaining it. It's true that sometimes Sam grabs the ledge when you don't want him to do so but since it's a slow paced game, I don't really see this as a problem. Sure sometimes it can make the player miss an opportunity or lose some precious time but it never was a huge issue for me, and before now I've never seen anyone complaining about it. I think it would definitely be if the gameplay was fast paced.

"Swapping shoulders was not in SC."

Ok so that's what I thought, it arrived with Chaos Theory.

"The lack of saves would be an option. The quick saves were exclusive to PC, I believe."

Alright. And yeah, I think there weren't quicksaves on consoles for SAR and PT. But hopefully the remake will have quicksaves.

"I'm talking about when Sam grabs someone who's on the phone. It would be nice if they called back, causing a sound that could alert others."

It could be a nice feature, if used properly and in a random way to surprise the player.

"Instead of "jump" and "crouch," it would use "upward" and "downward." That way it's more clear: if you want to bring your legs up, you use the "upward"; if you want to drop down, you use "downward." Of course, there would need to be an option (probably on by default) for making "downward" stand up from a crouch."

I'm still not sure to understand what you mean by "upward" and "downward". Do you mean Z and S on pc ? And pushing the stick forward and backward on a controller ?
If yes then it doesn't feel very ergonomic to me.

"They wouldn't need to tweak any mechanics in order to use first-person. Blacklist had first-person. You could also try it out in the Thief series."

First person in Blacklist was atrocious, it was terrible designed and it wasn't fun to play.
I know the Thief series and I have played it. They are great games (except for the last one) but they feel different from SC. And I personally don't want to lose the Splinter Cell spirit or change it by going first person. I think SC is at its best and has more potential in third person.

"Leaning is also useful in third-person, if only when you're aiming."

It's a nice addition but not a mandatory one. And on pc it could easily be done but on consoles it takes away two buttons for a feature that is not quite useful imo.

"Yes, the wall runs similar to those found in Prince of Persia. It allows for more fluid movement and it could look great, as well as potentially creating new routes and strategies for speed-running."

I don't really see how it could be useful. Level design in SC is supposed to be realistic and it hasn't any platform sections like Prince of Persia. Plus running fast on a wall could make some noise.

"I'm talking about a sprinting speed, a normal speed, and a stealth speed for climibing."

A sprinting speed for climbing like the Conviction/Blacklist one ? I hope they won't bring it back, I want realism to be back in Splinter Cell animations and movements. They can add a slightly faster pace to the old animations but only if it has a drawback, which is to make noise and possibly alert guards neaby.

"SC already has parkour movement. You kick off of a wall in order to get to higher places. I'm not trying to see it become as fast-paced as Blacklist; I want the speed it had, for the most part."

I would call that athletic moves. Parkour is a whole other thing that came up with Assassin's Creed and which unfortunately contaminated almost all Ubisoft games since.

"Sam takes out multiple guards around there; so, there are weapons. It seems unlikely that they would say they're too weak and sit there hiding."

That would force players to play a certain way and to take out these guards, even if they don't want to. It would be better if there are weapons stored somewhere in the abattoir and the player could go steal some of these weapons if he/she wants to get assistance from the soldiers.

"oops. I was not talking about the sound meter. I was talking about seeing through walls. A lot of games do that because their sound isn't good. They will either show the footsteps (We Happy Few) or they will show the entire body."

Okay. And this definitely is a bad feature to have in a stealth game, I hope the remake won't have one.


---

@CoastalGirl Didn't we talk about limiting OCP uses before? I seem to recall that...getting a certain number of charges for the mission to use as you wish, but when you're out, you're out. I like that direction more than fully replacing with a jammer.

We probably did yeah, we talked about so many things haha.
I like the idea of having a limited number of charges for the OCP, we could tie that to the difficulty or the options if a players want to challenge themselves.

It's not that I don't think they could do it, I'm sure they could. But even with fixed codes, that's a quite a few animations that have to be properly linked to the material on the keypad... Maybe it's way easier than I think, in which case then by all means they should go for it, but when I really thought about the process (based on my experience with some complex materials in Unreal), it could be pretty involved to do well.

I think it could be easily done if these sequences are scripted, if there's only a few of them and if the codes are indeed fixed. But if it's a systemic feature with random codes allowing any guard to enter the code then yeah it would probably take some time to develop. But I wonder if it would really be that hard to do. Nowadays some of the new engines are so powerful that they can automatically handle some animations.

@coastalgirl I agree with that. I'm okay with "safe" spots when the AI is passive , though, and in general on easier difficulties. "Safe" meaning where you know a guard is not going to accidentally bump into you, like in a vent. Higher difficulties, though, sure. Deploy the drones. lol

Oh yeah for sure, there should always be safe spots when the AI is passive and isn't aware at all of your presence.
I never liked drones in SC and I'm sick of seeing them in so many Ubisoft games haha. But I'm all in for having higher difficulty modes where guards would team up, inspect all hiding places like air vents by throwing light sticks in them, or check inside cabinets, under trucks, everywhere !! ^^

Giving us a good reason to not just reload would be pretty big. They might feel like they did that with LKP, but that definitely was not for stealth players.

Yes. We already talked about that some time ago on the old forums, about how we could imagine a research phase during alerts that would challenge the skills of stealth players as never before and reward them properly if they succeed. I'm convinced there's something very interesting to do there.

I started to make a quick version but it's a little tricky. I used a spot light with a material for the projection (technically there are two lights stacked on top of each other because I used red and green in the material and each color channel needs its own light because of how light function materials work and blah blah blah lol) which does sort of accomplish what I want. I can have it be visible on just the floor easily enough, but I also want it to be shadowed by stuff in the environment. I can do that, but then those objects also get the pattern projected onto them. I'm sure there's a way to shadow without receiving the light, but I haven't had time to dive into it.

Sounds interesting. Sadly I can't help haha, but I always like to see people passionate about something and spending time to make it work. Because when it finally works, it feels like a relief and you're so proud of yourself, and that's a great feeling
So share it with us when you'll make it !

Nice to see some new stuff! Evotinction looks the most interesting to me, too. The trailer gets a little explodey at the end, but I like the look of it otherwise, especially those clean environments.

Yeah, Evotinction definitely has more resources so it looks more promising.
Sadly all trailers nowadays have to be "explosive" and show some action, even stealth ones. Devs need to get the attention of casual audiences. I wish they didn't have to do so but hey...


PS : Someone on the Splinter Cell subreddit found this video on youtube. I wonder if the guy who posted this video is a Ubisoft employee or if he did that on his own, because he asks in the video description if he should continue development. Anyway I'd love to play this level !
We can see some of the graphics at 3:14, I wonder if this is a scrapped level from Double Agent. It feels to me that the reflections look different from the original game. Plus Sam has red lights and the SC-20K looks totally different.

@contadojlbraga1 Hey,
We don't know why exactly the game isn't on PC digital stores, Ubisoft never told. It seems that the reason is because modern graphics cards don't render the shadows properly.
Anyway if that's the real reason then it would be a shame. Because there's already mods on the internet resolving that issue, so it would be very easy for Ubisoft to fix it and release the game on Steam...

@mymomjust I never suggested removing third-person. The future is to offer both, at least in games that are not PVP (you could always have servers force the perspective for PVP, though.) I don't really remember the FPP in Blacklist, but I know the system I want exists in ArmA 3 and both first- and third- feel great; they also have their own advantages, and I know it would help SC.

I disagree with your statement saying that the future is to offer both. Yeah you have a third person view in ArmA but as it's a shooter, it's way better to play first person.
Anyway mixing both views in games wouldn't be interesting because it would be hard to balance for the devs, they'll have to adapt certain mechanics and the games would lose their identity and become more generic, more alike.
It can work for a small amount of franchises but I don't see it working well for SC.

What does "mandatory" mean? Gaming is not mandatory. It makes the game feel much less stiff (looser in a good way), it looks better, it gives players more control. I am 100% certain that I can create an effective control scheme on a gamepad, even if they add more mechanics. Ignoring that gamepads need to add more buttons and I know how to design that, gamepads have been horribly underutilized.

I meant that leaning is a facultative featurein Splinter Cell, and it's even useless as it's a third person game. Unless you're still thinking about turning SC into a first person game. In this case then yeah.

No, not the speed of Blacklist. I'm talking about movements that are not at a snail's pace but make more noise. One speed is for making almost no noise but going very slow; another is for moving at a reasonable speed because there could be someone around but not close, and the other is for moving when you know there is no one to hear it. The sprinting speed would also be useful for when you fail your stealth and should be moving as quickly as possible.

Alright then I'd agree with this, as long as it makes sense and is realistic.

I'm talking about "parkour" - the original French meaning. It's getting from point A to point B as effectively and shortly as possible. Rather than walking 100m, walking up steps, and walking 100m back, you simply jump off of a wall and climb up where you are. (Also, why would you ask if I meant Blacklist's speed if your next quote shows me saying I don't want Blacklist's speed but want the original's speed for the most part?)

Well we don't have the same definition of parkour then ^^
(My question was about the climbing movements, not the usual ones)

You're already forced to take out the guards. Stealing weapons could be done properly, but there are already weapons that the guards are carrying. Muling weapons sounds far more boring than having a cutscene quickly explain how they ended up with weapons. Sam could sneak by the guards, untie the soldiers, the first two soldiers sneak behind the guards and take them out. From there, they could either grab guns from a nearby rack or only two of the soldiers start the gameplay with guns. It could even all be scripted in the gameplay (which is best.) (They could even make it so that there are only one or two soldiers left.)

I'm talking about the guards right before getting to the area where the hostages are. You are not forced to take out all these guards.
But yeah that could be a nice option, as long as it is not forced. If players wanna get assistance from the soldiers then they can do that. But if they don't and want to be alone against all the guards coming up like in the original game then they'll also be able to do so.

I do not like that. That's basically giving people a set number of attempts to solve a puzzle and explore the area. I can also see that leading to people spending a lot of time rechecking areas to be certain that they're supposed to go back through a LASER grid or bulletproof-cam hallway. As the old games are, the jammer would also lead to less stationary redundant time; why wait for my OCP to be ready if I can simply be more efficient with a jammer? Your proposed system is essentially the same as giving someone a set number of whistles (or knocks!)

The games were always designed to support multiple solutions. About laser grids, you can carry a guard who thanks to the IRF chip in their outfit can disable the lasers. And in a hallway with a bulletproof-cam you can still shoot lights for you to be in total darkness and therefore invisible be to the camera. These multiple solutions need to stay.
However the remake wants to make the levels more open so I assume that most of the time there would be multiple ways to get to your objective. But it would also be a great opportunity to create some new mechanics, like finding the frequency of the IRF chips the guards are using or accessing the heavily guarded security room and being able to hack cameras, get them on an already recorded loop.
By the way, that heavily guarded security room could be useful to introduce some other new mechanics like finding the radio frequency for the walkie-talkie, or opening some access to the ventilation system for example, or finding the latest updated map of all floors of the building, something to make the game more systemic and pushed more into exploration.

@CoastalGirl I'm definitely for it, I'm just thinking about more impactful features first.

Yep. Having detailed elements like that in a game is always cool and makes the game even more memorable. But development resources are more and more limited these days, if they get the gameplay right then it would already be a great thing and an excellent start to then build up the other games by giving them more mechanics and details like that.

Thanks! lol I know it's not realistic to see the numbers - kind of takes away from the whole security aspect - but from the gameplay side, it's helpful.

Yeah in a game it would make sense and not take away the immersion.

@coastalgirl It's kind of fun to be excited about it again. After what happened with Conviction I was definitely hesitant to get invested in Blacklist, but this time's different. I hope. lol

Yeah. I was one of those who had a bit of hope for Blacklist to go back to the formula we love and cherish. We were heard by the devs but it ended up being only on surface and for small details, not in depth about core gameplay mechanics. Now with more experience I'll be more cautious haha.

Yeah, I remember a lot of rumors going around about what happened, but I don't know what was true.

At the end it's always the same conclusion: EA is the bad guy ^^
They closed so many talented studios and ruined so many others...

I never felt like it was the real Sam, either, just some guy with the same name.

Interesting ! So it would mean that the Sam in Blacklist was an impostor, the real one is probably being kept captive somewhere by Megiddo ^^

They didn't use it a lot, but just the fact that they tried at all is impressive. When it's implemented well, it's a cool feature, and it does work. It requires more consideration from the level design side, but that's fine. IMO it's worth the effort when they can add depth to the gameplay like that.

Yeah it is impressive. I can't name another game having this mechanic. This is definitely an option that I want to see added to Splinter Cell, but only as an option.
I'm curious to see how this mechanic plays in Velvet Assassin. But in SC if done well, that could open up a whole new range of possibilities for new puzzles.

@coastalgirl I'll take drones over dogs any day, though!

Haha, and what about a dog being walked by a drone ?

Definitely on board for the thorough searching. I picture having to sneak from spot to spot, flanking to rehide somewhere they already checked. It'd require more planning, but could be quite fun.

Yeah, the player would definitely have to move and not stay static in a safe area while waiting for the guards to end their searching and go back to their normal routine.

Interesting... Definitely DA, and I'm thinking modded.

Yep it's DA. But I wonder if it's modded or if he had access to the development kit of the game. I don't think he would be able to create a new level through modding knowing how closed the engines that Ubisoft uses are.
And it seems that this level could be the last level that has been scrapped, the one in the restaurant where Emile has taken refuge.


PS: I came across this article on GameRant the other day. The author is on the same line as us, we could have written the open letter with him
https://gamerant.com/splinter-cell-remake-faithful-accurate-important/: (https://gamerant.com/splinter-cell-remake-faithful-accurate-important)

@coastalgirl It's one of those cool sneaky spy things! Remote hacking from a shadow across the room is just high-end stealth. That said, it'd be fine if they make it harder to get there, and harder to hack. Also, alternatives can be fun too; timing a physical hack with a guard's patrol around the room can be satisfying. But if the option is there, I'm using the EEV.

I understand, we all tend to choose the easy way. That's human ^^
But if there are more challenging ways to make it harder or limit the use of OCP and EEV then I'm also all in for it !

I agree with you on scripted sequences. With a fixed code for a special event, absolutely. But outside of that, I still question if it's worth it. I do expect them to have dynamic keypads, and showing button activations should be easy.
Connecting to NPC animations though... I know it can all be linked, but I worry about how much effort it would take, especially to do well. They can blend animations, but without refinement they can look janky and unnatural. If that's the case, I'd rather that they did a quality generic animation with dynamic button activations, especially since we often don't have a good view of the keypad anyway (outside of a scripted event).

It's also entirely possible that I'm just overthinking it because I had to make one for a cinematic (don't ask lol):

Yeah it would probably take too much effort for a feature that wouldn't be used that much. This kind of non-scripted feature would be more suitable in an immersive-game. But if possible, it would be still cool to have it in SC !
Your animation is great and goes straight to the point, haha ! Yeah it would be easier to just highlight numbers and the player could see the keypad from all angles, without worrying about missing a number. That would take some immersion away from me, but it wouldn't be a big issue since there are so many other things in videogames that move a bit away from realism to serve gameplay.
And this way having it systemic with randomized codes would be way quicker to design.

@coastalgirl Last I saw, they were pushing it back to the fall (I think). I really would love a SC teaser for that. I know it's super early and they may not have much to show, but at least give me the goggles...

I've heard that they'll announce the new Assassin's Creed game in september, I don't know about the rest. However I'm sure we'll have something around Splinter Cell for the 20th birthday of the franchise in november. There's no way they'll miss that. So they'll probably show the VR game, the Netflix anime series and release a small teaser for the remake.

It really has changed a lot. Back in the day, if you released a game that was broken...that was it... Games were smaller, though.
As time passed, they got bigger and bigger. Then look at a game like The Saboteur. I love that game, and it had massive potential, but it was rough. The scope was too big. I don't know whose fault that was; I know Pandemic became part of EA, and I assume that impacted things, but whatever it was...that was the end of Pandemic. Really sad.

I don't think it's a matter of size. Back then we also had ambitious games but they weren't released so broken and with so much lacking content. You could feel when some games where rushed, some had some bugs but they weren't in a bad state like the ones we have today.
As for Pandemic it seems to me that EA already decided to close the studio while they were still developing the game. Which is a shame, it was such a talented and good studio. I liked Saboteur and Full Spectrum Warrior.

Definite potential there! I'd want him to be angry about it, though, and not just become an angry dude. lol
Like with Dahlia. He kind of snaps back at Lambert and I like that.

You're right, that wide range of emotions showing how human he is should stay and be extended. The angry dude was in Blacklist haha, but that wasn't really Sam anyway lol.

I do love it. lol
It has flaws, but look beyond them. There are some really good stealth qualities; things that other teams could learn from, IMO. It even tried to innovate a little with the cast shadow detection.
Also, random fact - Ubisoft was one of the publishers for it.

Oh, shadow detection ! That's quite interesting, now I can't wait to try it ^^
There are so many broken games that I love, games that had a bigger potential but suffered from not having enough resources or time.
Hopefully I'll like that game too. And din't know Ubisoft published it, so many news about this game

@coastalgirl I agree with that. I'm okay with "safe" spots when the AI is passive , though, and in general on easier difficulties. "Safe" meaning where you know a guard is not going to accidentally bump into you, like in a vent. Higher difficulties, though, sure. Deploy the drones. lol

Oh yeah for sure, there should always be safe spots when the AI is passive and isn't aware at all of your presence.
I never liked drones in SC and I'm sick of seeing them in so many Ubisoft games haha. But I'm all in for having higher difficulty modes where guards would team up, inspect all hiding places like air vents by throwing light sticks in them, or check inside cabinets, under trucks, everywhere !! ^^

Giving us a good reason to not just reload would be pretty big. They might feel like they did that with LKP, but that definitely was not for stealth players.

Yes. We already talked about that some time ago on the old forums, about how we could imagine a research phase during alerts that would challenge the skills of stealth players as never before and reward them properly if they succeed. I'm convinced there's something very interesting to do there.

I started to make a quick version but it's a little tricky. I used a spot light with a material for the projection (technically there are two lights stacked on top of each other because I used red and green in the material and each color channel needs its own light because of how light function materials work and blah blah blah lol) which does sort of accomplish what I want. I can have it be visible on just the floor easily enough, but I also want it to be shadowed by stuff in the environment. I can do that, but then those objects also get the pattern projected onto them. I'm sure there's a way to shadow without receiving the light, but I haven't had time to dive into it.

Sounds interesting. Sadly I can't help haha, but I always like to see people passionate about something and spending time to make it work. Because when it finally works, it feels like a relief and you're so proud of yourself, and that's a great feeling
So share it with us when you'll make it !

Nice to see some new stuff! Evotinction looks the most interesting to me, too. The trailer gets a little explodey at the end, but I like the look of it otherwise, especially those clean environments.

Yeah, Evotinction definitely has more resources so it looks more promising.
Sadly all trailers nowadays have to be "explosive" and show some action, even stealth ones. Devs need to get the attention of casual audiences. I wish they didn't have to do so but hey...


PS : Someone on the Splinter Cell subreddit found this video on youtube. I wonder if the guy who posted this video is a Ubisoft employee or if he did that on his own, because he asks in the video description if he should continue development. Anyway I'd love to play this level !
We can see some of the graphics at 3:14, I wonder if this is a scrapped level from Double Agent. It feels to me that the reflections look different from the original game. Plus Sam has red lights and the SC-20K looks totally different.

@mymomjust "I agree that they could make things too easy. The EEV was mostly for saving time (instead of walking over to the PC.) The combo of the two definitely allowed for some hilarious stuff in CT, though."

Not only saving time, but to make the game easier as you can hack a computer or a keypad while staying in the dark. But it's a cool and fun feature yeah.

"By "manual grab," I'm saying that the player would need to push (X) in order to grab the nearest/next ledge. Aside from it being more engaging, it also prevents a lot of instances where your avatar keeps grabbing ledges when you simply want to drop."

Okay I understand now, thanks for explaining it. It's true that sometimes Sam grabs the ledge when you don't want him to do so but since it's a slow paced game, I don't really see this as a problem. Sure sometimes it can make the player miss an opportunity or lose some precious time but it never was a huge issue for me, and before now I've never seen anyone complaining about it. I think it would definitely be if the gameplay was fast paced.

"Swapping shoulders was not in SC."

Ok so that's what I thought, it arrived with Chaos Theory.

"The lack of saves would be an option. The quick saves were exclusive to PC, I believe."

Alright. And yeah, I think there weren't quicksaves on consoles for SAR and PT. But hopefully the remake will have quicksaves.

"I'm talking about when Sam grabs someone who's on the phone. It would be nice if they called back, causing a sound that could alert others."

It could be a nice feature, if used properly and in a random way to surprise the player.

"Instead of "jump" and "crouch," it would use "upward" and "downward." That way it's more clear: if you want to bring your legs up, you use the "upward"; if you want to drop down, you use "downward." Of course, there would need to be an option (probably on by default) for making "downward" stand up from a crouch."

I'm still not sure to understand what you mean by "upward" and "downward". Do you mean Z and S on pc ? And pushing the stick forward and backward on a controller ?
If yes then it doesn't feel very ergonomic to me.

"They wouldn't need to tweak any mechanics in order to use first-person. Blacklist had first-person. You could also try it out in the Thief series."

First person in Blacklist was atrocious, it was terrible designed and it wasn't fun to play.
I know the Thief series and I have played it. They are great games (except for the last one) but they feel different from SC. And I personally don't want to lose the Splinter Cell spirit or change it by going first person. I think SC is at its best and has more potential in third person.

"Leaning is also useful in third-person, if only when you're aiming."

It's a nice addition but not a mandatory one. And on pc it could easily be done but on consoles it takes away two buttons for a feature that is not quite useful imo.

"Yes, the wall runs similar to those found in Prince of Persia. It allows for more fluid movement and it could look great, as well as potentially creating new routes and strategies for speed-running."

I don't really see how it could be useful. Level design in SC is supposed to be realistic and it hasn't any platform sections like Prince of Persia. Plus running fast on a wall could make some noise.

"I'm talking about a sprinting speed, a normal speed, and a stealth speed for climibing."

A sprinting speed for climbing like the Conviction/Blacklist one ? I hope they won't bring it back, I want realism to be back in Splinter Cell animations and movements. They can add a slightly faster pace to the old animations but only if it has a drawback, which is to make noise and possibly alert guards neaby.

"SC already has parkour movement. You kick off of a wall in order to get to higher places. I'm not trying to see it become as fast-paced as Blacklist; I want the speed it had, for the most part."

I would call that athletic moves. Parkour is a whole other thing that came up with Assassin's Creed and which unfortunately contaminated almost all Ubisoft games since.

"Sam takes out multiple guards around there; so, there are weapons. It seems unlikely that they would say they're too weak and sit there hiding."

That would force players to play a certain way and to take out these guards, even if they don't want to. It would be better if there are weapons stored somewhere in the abattoir and the player could go steal some of these weapons if he/she wants to get assistance from the soldiers.

"oops. I was not talking about the sound meter. I was talking about seeing through walls. A lot of games do that because their sound isn't good. They will either show the footsteps (We Happy Few) or they will show the entire body."

Okay. And this definitely is a bad feature to have in a stealth game, I hope the remake won't have one.


---

@CoastalGirl Didn't we talk about limiting OCP uses before? I seem to recall that...getting a certain number of charges for the mission to use as you wish, but when you're out, you're out. I like that direction more than fully replacing with a jammer.

We probably did yeah, we talked about so many things haha.
I like the idea of having a limited number of charges for the OCP, we could tie that to the difficulty or the options if a players want to challenge themselves.

It's not that I don't think they could do it, I'm sure they could. But even with fixed codes, that's a quite a few animations that have to be properly linked to the material on the keypad... Maybe it's way easier than I think, in which case then by all means they should go for it, but when I really thought about the process (based on my experience with some complex materials in Unreal), it could be pretty involved to do well.

I think it could be easily done if these sequences are scripted, if there's only a few of them and if the codes are indeed fixed. But if it's a systemic feature with random codes allowing any guard to enter the code then yeah it would probably take some time to develop. But I wonder if it would really be that hard to do. Nowadays some of the new engines are so powerful that they can automatically handle some animations.

@Fraeulein Right? The use “Fifth Freedom” was supposed to be a last resort.

Yeah, and I really hope we won't scrap this important concept in the remake.

It is OK. It is a game that I would have been mad if I paid full price for it. It may have been the graphics or just it’s age, it could be a really good game if rebooted and maybe things addressed. The save game was miserable. It was only at checkpoints. (Kind of like Blacklist. If you wanted to play that level getting down to the final control room of Site F , you would have to start from the beginning)
Sometimes the way the shading worked, you could be in complete shadow or darkness and still alert guards. At other times you could be “crouched” in half shadow and still obviously in the light and a guard would walk right by. Sneaking up behind guards would feel like it took forever because had to stop ever few feet to hide because they were slow. The aiming was crazy off. It was as wonky as the AI. You had to have amazing patience because sometimes the guards would just talk forever an then it would take you a while to figure out their patterns of patrol.
The cutscenes though were pretty. i think that was where they spent their money on creating the game.

I'll never understand devs who make stealth games but don't include manual saves, to me it must be a mandatory element to have in every game of this genre.
Alright then it looks as a half-baked game. I hope I'll enjoy it for what it is when I'll play it. Thank you for the feedback

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@coastalgirl We see little indie teams deliver amazing things all the time. It should be easier for Ubi - they have so many more resources, they just need to use them properly.

Yeah it should be, if they had solid executives who would care about games and what the audience wants. We'll soon start to see the effects of the executives who have replaced the ones fired in 2020. We'll see if things get better.
Ubisoft didn't announce any conference yet, I think it's the first time they aren't showing anything at E3 period. If they're doing this because they're taking their time to show solid and innovative stuff then good.

I'm not sure why this trend of over-promising and under-delivering seems accepted by anyone. While there is a lot of pressure on them, and I get that, being unrealistic just digs a deeper hole.

I think it's highly accepted by younger generations of gamers who un like us, didn't know the time where games were polished at release and not filled with microtransactions. There is that wrong belief among a lot of players that it's not a problem because patches will fix the problem and that developers first need money to finish and improve the games. While in reality executives who are now financiers and marketing teams have mostly taken the power over developers.

I like those morality checks a lot, mainly because they reinforce that Sam isn't a monster (wasn't, anyway). I like the dialogue for both Dahlia Tal options, too, because he's angry either way.

True, the Dahlia Tal situation is handled so perfectly by the game whatever your choice is.
And this morality aspect would bring some freshness in videogames, showing that killing too much people or innocent people has consequences on mental health. Spec Ops The Line did something like that but in a different way, and that was very innovative and smart from the devs.
How cool it would be to see Sam's mood would change along the game and he'd become darker and have slightly different dialogues and be more aggressive during interrogations if he kills too many NPCs.

Mine is not a really popular opinion, but I love Velvet Assassin. 
Yes, it's flawed. There are issues...some big ones... However, it's a pretty committed stealth game that uses light and shadow (with some cast shadow recognition, even), line of sight, and disguises. You're given very limited ammo, and when missions happen back-to-back, your health and items carry over. There's even a section where you have nothing and it's sneak or die, which I love.
It's definitely worth playing, IMO, and I think it's only $5 on Steam.

If you love that game then it's promising, haha.
Oh so it has a mix of light & shadow gameplay with disguises gameplay, nice !
I like that we have limited ammo, and that health and items are carried over. Those are nice features that add to the challenge.
I'll definitely add this game to my list and play it ! Thank you for your quick review

It's so strange to me, and quite scary, that there are so many people who seem to fully lack empathy. I care a lot about Splinter Cell, but I could never imagine behaving like that. I've met some devs, and I've always been nice...even when they did things I really didn't like. lol

Yeah, I guess being behind a screen removes a lot of the empathy for some people. And even more since the arising of social medias where some people could feel powerful and untouchable because they think that they belong to a group or because nobody is respecting anyone in these apps, so it's like a digital jungle for them.

@coastalgirl I played it, and they definitely put a lot into their NPCs. It's a very high-quality game overall. It'd be one of my favorites, I'm sure, if I didn't absolutely despise the story.

Yeah I've heard and seen a lot of complaints on the story.I have to play this game someday, to see the improvements they did on the stealth gameplay.

AI should definitely play a part, but the environments affect it, too. If you have a large open space vs. a smaller space with obstacles, or vertical options, etc. It all plays into how easy it is to break line of sight. AI awareness based on difficulty certainly adds to that.

True, level design and hiding places are important as well. But there should be no areas in a mission where a player could feel totally safe from the AI (except from the infiltration points, exfiltration points and some objective locations). Therefore that variation on how easy it is to run away depends on AI, especially in highest difficulty modes. The AI would extend its researches and more persistent into finding the intruder, no matter of all the hiding possibilities available on the map. I don't know if I made myself clear and maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. Anyway I don't downplay the role of level design in allowing the player of running away more or less efficiently.

Yeah, the enemies shooting the LKP ghost thing can be weird. Sometimes it goes on way too long, and sometimes it happens in a spot that seems like it should be lit enough that they could clearly see you're not there. But, meh...if I play right, I don't have to see it at all.

Yeah if we play right (as we always do ), we never have to encounter this. However the AI is designed in a way where it very often depends on this LKP ghost, which is reducing the fun, the realism and reason for people who would want to challenge themselves and expect hard time to escape from the situation. As we were talking a few months ago on the old forum, I'm convinced there's a way to make detection more interesting and more challenging for players who like to play pure stealth like us, something that would be more interesting than pushing us to reload a previous save. Something very innovative for the genre.

It could be quite easy if they didn't adjust for it, but re-balancing is inevitable. I'd rather have it than not. If it's too easy, then I don't see myself using it. That's true for most of the gadgets.

Yeah, because we know stealth and know how to limit ourselves to enjoy stealth. But giving too much tools to newcomers might not give them the right start because they won't feel challenged as a stealth game should by limiting the resources. It happened in Blacklist, the game gives too much tools and gadgets to the player, which makes the game even easier that it already is.
And it's the same problem that happened with the new Hitman games. These games have too many tools, making it quite easy. And how many streams and youtube gameplays I've seen with people constantly using that X-ray vision allowing to see through walls. This type of overpowered mechanics ruin stealth and don't teach it the right way to newcomers.
So if OCP and EEV are introduced in the remake then they should be very limited in terms of use and not reduce the challenge.

And it's dynamic, as well, constantly reshaping (essentially) based how dark it is, where Sam is, etc.

Yeah, 3D directly complexifies all the problems. I hope you'll find a way to make this floor projection work, good luck !

I think if players are rewarded for more careful play but not necessarily "punished" otherwise, it's safer. We should have options either way, but I like the idea of caution and patience being rewarded. Because of course I would. lol

Definitely, punishment should always be fair and not result as a frustration and stealth should always reward patience and caution. But in the case of Splinter Cell it should never rewards kills and action gameplay like Blacklist did, even as a lower extent than ghosting.

Aw, that looks great! Basic stealth can still be really fun, especially if the environments are done well. Plus it's using Unreal, so they get bonus points.

Yep, let's wish the developer the best. It seems like he's or she's working alone on this game so it's a pretty big challenge !

I liked the first one. It's not all stealth, but has a decent amount, and it's functional - simple and clean. I also like the "puzzles" with the rats. I've been waiting for the sequel for so long now, I just hope they haven't changed it too much...

Alright cool, I can't wait to experience it then. Hopefully the sequel will make stealth even more enjoyable. By the way they showed another trailer during the Xbox showcase:

Talking about stealth games in development, there has been a few ones showed during the conferences.

First one is Ereban Shadow Legacy, a fast paced stealth game. It makes me think of Aragami because of how you could move "inside" shadows:


Second one is Evotinction, a 3rd person "hack and stealth" game. This one is my favorite announce, it has a great potential :


And there's also a new trailer for Undetected, a MGS-like game that I think we already talked about here. Looks nice for the nostalgic MGS fans, but I personally have hard time enjoying a stealth game where NPCs don't even hear the main protagonist running right next to them :